RFB and RSRD manual targeting guide

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I quickly switched back after every fire and every torpedo turns wildly off course (sharply to the left shortly after leaving the sub). Yet that is not the solution I have entered.

Do you have the Position Keeper turned off?

Can you describe exactly how you are entering your data? Perhaps we can help you identify any problems there.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I can't check my firing solution in the attack map (which is very nice to have to confirm to yourself that you do have the "final solution"*) which again might be something RFB does away with. Why? I don't know its a bit annoying but if thats what RFB does thats fine, I'll learn to cope.

I don't run RFB, so I can't say for sure if it modifies the attack map. You can verify your solution on the periscope screen, though. The bottom dial on the Position Keeper on the left hand side is the torpedo gyro angle. You can hover the mouse over it and get the gyro angle. It should be 0 degrees, or within a few degrees of 0; also, it should be holding steady, not moving at all.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

*Just a joke for the thin skinned. Saw a sig that said don't ask a WW2 Historian about his Final Solution. Post seemed a bit harsh and I wanted to inject some humor.

It was from one of the techs support guys in our call center. He'd just got off of a rather long call, and we worked late evening shift, so blowing off steam by shouting across the room was done quite often, and we didn't have to worry about management bothering us.

Originally Posted by razark

It was from one of the techs support guys in our call center. He'd just got off of a rather long call, and we worked late evening shift, so blowing off steam by shouting across the room was done quite often, and we didn't have to worry about management bothering us.

Ah knowing the gyro angle would be awesome!

That would allow me to set the cross the wire bearing as 0 then using the Gyro angle I know that the lead angle (or true zero as I call it) would be at X bearing! That may in fact be the missing piece!

I think my problem my have been following all the assumptions made within the guides. I will re-try the approach again and see if I have any new luck.

But now I have another question, do I send the range and bearing to TDC while I'm looking at 0 or my lead angle? I would assume 0, and I think I've been doing that wrong.

I've been putting in (with PK off) an AoB of 75 (right to left) a speed of 12 and a range of whatever because all the guides say it doesn't matter but I have been using my 15 degree lead.

Oh man call centers I spent two years working for a telemarketing company (trying like hell to get into their tech department.) I can understand the whole blowing off steam. I just saw you sig and rolled for a good few minutes. Nothing is funny than jokes laced with history. Cause you can tell people who don't know history.

Thanks for the help guys I'm going to try out this and report back.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

But now I have another question, do I send the range and bearing to TDC while I'm looking at 0 or my lead angle? I would assume 0, and I think I've been doing that wrong.

Point your scope down your shooting bearing, and send that bearing.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I've been putting in (with PK off) an AoB of 75 (right to left) a speed of 12 and a range of whatever because all the guides say it doesn't matter but I have been using my 15 degree lead.

I usually play early in the war, so I usually shoot from a 45 degree intercept, so if I muck this up, that might be why. I'm trying to keep the angles straight in my head for a 90 degree shot.

Set the speed to 12. Aim your scope at the 15 degree mark. Send the bearing (hit the button twice). Now, set your AoB dial to 75 degrees, and send that (once again, hit the button twice; I'm not sure why, but it's the way I learned it). Go check the Gyro Angle dial on the position keeper. It should be somewhere around 0. If you really want to, you can note how far off it is, for example, let's say it points at 5 degrees. You can then adjust your scope bearing to 10 degrees (15-5=10), send that. Adjust your AoB to 80 degrees (75+5=80), send it. Check the gyro angle again, it should be closer to 0. You can also check the torpedo's track angle (the angle at which the torpedo will hit the target) on the top dial, and make sure it's close to 90.

Now, wait for that target to cross the wire, and put some holes in it.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Oh man call centers I spent two years working for a telemarketing company (trying like hell to get into their tech department.) I can understand the whole blowing off steam. I just saw you sig and rolled for a good few minutes. Nothing is funny than jokes laced with history. Cause you can tell people who don't know history.

I worked in a telemarketing call center for a while. It wasn't exactly my thing. I got moved into the recording room after a while, listening to calls for sales/customer service verification. That was pretty fun.

The other call center was the tech support floor for a server hosting company. The building also had one of the Houston Data Centers, so I can actually say that I've been in the same room as Subsim itself. I got out of that job before the power room exploded, though. The job was pretty bad, the customers were mostly annoying, but the tech support crew was a load of fun, especially after all the managers left.

Nope didn't work not even close.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I never miss on OM, n.e.v.e.r. This mod is hardly any different from OM other than the TDC.

I just do not understand.

Again, I know the exact course, speed and AoB of the convoy, hell I know the exact time in which I need to turn from my navigation course to my intercept course (before I even make visual contact), 01:00 hrs.

I enter the AoB since it always pops up first again off the assumption of the guides I put it to 75 (right to left) click the thing twice, enter the speed 12 kts click it twice, then send bearing to TDC which should turn to 0 but I'm noticing the gyro angle says 0 but the bearing from the bow is (the bearing from the bow that is the torpedoes course) >>>>260<<<<<. My correct solution is so far off the torps run out of fuel before the ship even cross the "wake" of the torpedos.

Am I to understand that I can not move my scope once I have entered the solution?

At what bearing should I send bearing to TDC? 0 or 15 or 345? All the guides have assumptions in them, radar, better than Mark 14 torpedoes not in S-18 class. *Sigh* sorry to go off on a rant, I think I'm just trying to hard.

Any way I can put the solution view back into RFB without breaking the mod? I doubted it.

I'm going to try a few more times and just give up. This is really bad for blood pressure.

EDIT: My previous post should have read "Nothing is **funnier** than jokes laced with history" Sounded like I was being an ass with what I had wrote Sorry! Gonna go have a cig and a few deep breathes and try once more and see if that will work.

Thanks to all who have been walking me through this, I'm sure your pulling your own hair out on account of me.

[I'm goin' down]

TMO is compatible with RSRDC. It is a superior mod, and you will have your tracking angles on the Attack Map. But I would isolate the problem(s) with the Dick O'Kane training video first. You can replay the mission as often as you would like. Double clicking the attack dials as noted by razark is important. Read the Dick O'Kane thread in Skippers Bag of Tricks sticky. Remember the TDC is calculating the lead angle even though the PK is not activated.

If you set up at 90 degrees, set up with a firing point at a bearomg of 350 degrees (if the is the target is approaching with its starboard side exposed) or a firing point of 10 degrees (if the target is approaching with its port side exposed) and the target's speed is 8 or 9 kts., the torpedo impact point will be around 0 degrees. See gutted's chart in the Dick O'Kane thread. Ideal range is 800-1,000 yds.

I hope you realize the final solution comment in the signature is a double entendre.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Nope didn't work not even close.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

If it's any consolation, I don't either.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I enter the AoB since it always pops up first again off the assumption of the guides I put it to 75 (right to left) click the thing twice, enter the speed 12 kts click it twice, then send bearing to TDC

Try entering the bearing in first, and then the AoB. The game does seem to have issues sometimes.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Am I to understand that I can not move my scope once I have entered the solution?

Once you enter your solution, you can move the scope. As long as you don't enter any data, your solution will not change. You can swing the scope around to look at the situation, or even lower it and shoot by sound bearing (I haven't tried that), and the TDC will still be set for your original solution.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

At what bearing should I send bearing to TDC? 0 or 15 or 345? All the guides have assumptions in them, radar, better than Mark 14 torpedoes not in S-18 class. *Sigh* sorry to go off on a rant, I think I'm just trying to hard.

You should be aiming and firing when the target is on your 15 or 345 bearing. 15 if he's going from your right to your left; 345 if he's going from left to right. The TDC should take account of the torpedoes' speed for you.

[Edit: Wait, an S-boat?!? You shouldn't even be using the TDC! You should break out the slide-rules, protractors, paper and pencils.]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Any way I can put the solution view back into RFB without breaking the mod? I doubted it.

I'm guessing it probably can. I don't remember what file it was, but I'm guessing the line graphic was modified.

Ah. It was. It was replaced with an blank line. (See what you've made me do! I had to pause and go dig into the files... That 8000 ton maru will just have to wait.)

Ok, this should work (but may have unintended consequences, so don't be surprised to see something you didn't expect):
1. Uninstall RFB (I hope you're using JSGME).
2. Go into the MODS\RFB\Data\Menu\Gui\ folder.
3. Rename ContLine.dds and DashLine.dds to ContLine.dds.bak and DashLine.dds.bak
4. Reinstall RFB.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

EDIT: My previous post should have read "Nothing is **funnier** than jokes laced with history" Sounded like I was being an ass with what I had wrote Sorry!

No problem. I got what you meant.

Hmmm I just stumbled across something interesting, posting this via iPhone as I try and recreate it and record it while I do so.

First let allow me to explain, I decided I would play around with the solution. I know the speed AoB but I think the bearing has been what is kickin my stern hardcore. So I began playing around with the bearing and what it did to the gyro angle and the torpedoes course so here where the results.

Speed 12, AoB 75, Bearing 0.
Gyro angle: 340
Torpedoes Course: 339

Bearing 10
340
339. No change to gyro or bearing

Bearing 20
9
7. Radical change to both

Bearing 30
9
7. No change

Bearing 40
9
7. Again no change.

Yet when I went through the same bearings, the results don't match. Something isn't working right. The only thing I can reproduce is that the gyro and course radically jumps at 20 degrees.

This is strange perhaps I do have something wrong on my end.

[I'm goin' down]

try firing at 350 (starboard side exposed) and 10 degrees (port side exposed) if the target speed is >15 kts.

Based on you last post, it looks like the target may be sailing away from your boat. In O'Kane it should be sailing towards the direction of your boat. Sailing away is not good. It is BAD.

Bearings of the target should be 50...40...30...20...10 (fire)...0 (Splash 1)

Or. 310...320...330...340...350 (fire)...0 (As Rockin Robbins might say, Oops!! I sunk an Essex class.)

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

So I began playing around with the bearing and what it did to the gyro angle and the torpedoes course so here where the results.

Speed 12, AoB 75, Bearing 0.
Bearing 10
Bearing 20
Bearing 30
Bearing 40

You would also need to update the AoB for each bearing to get a correct solution. Also, for a 90 degree Dick O'Kane attack, your AoB is off. The target should be at an AoB of 90 when he is at 0 bearing.

What you should have is:

Bearing | AoB
--------+-----
  000   | 90
  010   | 80
  020   | 70
  030   | 60
And so on...

However, that still doesn't explain the results you got. If I wasn't in the middle to tracking a target, I'd throw it into my TDC to see what I got. Try updating the bearing and AoB and see what happens.

Well I indeed wasn't updating my AoB while I was doing this so I will try again, and while I'm at it I am downloading TMO upon the suggestion I received earlier just to see if maybe I have a bad install of RFB.

Thanks for all the help guys, but I'm going to sign out for the night.

I'll fiddle a bit more with it before hitting the bunk and try and report back in the early.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Nope didn't work not even close.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I never miss on OM, n.e.v.e.r. This mod is hardly any different from OM other than the TDC.

I just do not understand.

Again, I know the exact course, speed and AoB of the convoy, hell I know the exact time in which I need to turn from my navigation course to my intercept course (before I even make visual contact), 01:00 hrs.

I enter the AoB since it always pops up first again off the assumption of the guides I put it to 75 (right to left) click the thing twice, enter the speed 12 kts click it twice, then send bearing to TDC which should turn to 0 but I'm noticing the gyro angle says 0 but the bearing from the bow is (the bearing from the bow that is the torpedoes course) >>>>260<<<<<. My correct solution is so far off the torps run out of fuel before the ship even cross the "wake" of the torpedos.

Am I to understand that I can not move my scope once I have entered the solution?

At what bearing should I send bearing to TDC? 0 or 15 or 345? All the guides have assumptions in them, radar, better than Mark 14 torpedoes not in S-18 class. *Sigh* sorry to go off on a rant, I think I'm just trying to hard.

Any way I can put the solution view back into RFB without breaking the mod? I doubted it.

I'm going to try a few more times and just give up. This is really bad for blood pressure.

EDIT: My previous post should have read "Nothing is **funnier** than jokes laced with history" Sounded like I was being an ass with what I had wrote Sorry! Gonna go have a cig and a few deep breathes and try once more and see if that will work.

Thanks to all who have been walking me through this, I'm sure your pulling your own hair out on account of me.

Sorry you're in difficulties. I know the frustration factor can be high in this game.

I don't know about the O'Kane method, or the other SubSim methods, but I have a few suggestions.

First, if you have a mission where you can target a single ship, that would help. Trying to con your sub in the midst of an IJN task force is not a good way to learn. Unfortunately, the RFB training missions are of little help.

Second, I would encourage you to drop the O'Kane method, for the time being. I'm not saying the method doesn't work, but it is not essential to the use of the TDC. I think you would be better off to learn the TDC first, then worry about the O'Kane method.

Assuming you have Aob, speed and range.

1. Turn on position keeper. The 'GSP' light should stay on.
2. On right dial, dial in Aob, hit send to TDC button.
3. On right dial, dial in speed, hit send to TDC button.
4. On right dial, use stadimeter to get range.
5. With PS on target, hit send to TDC button to send both range and bearing to TDC.
6. Repeat steps 2 thru 5 in succesive observations.
7. When firing solution is good, fire torpedos.

It is not necessary, to shoot with scope up, right after step 5, but any inaccaracy in your data will cause the firing solution to deteriorate over time. Also, a small gyro-angle is not required, but was favored by captains, as it was more tolerant of errors. The Mk 10 torpedo gyros can be set up to 90 deg. no more. When you input data into the TDC, you should be able to see some movement in the dials on the left slideout. If you are putting in accurate date, but the readings on the left (updated by the position keeper), make no sense, something is wrong.

If you like, I can tell you how to manually obtain a firing solution (no TDC), but I assume you will want to learn the mysteries of the TDC anyway, since it is such a central element of the game.

[razark]

Originally Posted by TorpX

If you like, I can tell you how to manually obtain a firing solution (no TDC), but I assume you will want to learn the mysteries of the TDC anyway, since it is such a central element of the game.

I'd be interested in seeing a no TDC method. Anything to add to the list of available techniques is another option.

That's one thing about this game. There's so many different ways to play.

[I'm goin' down]

Torpex, I think it is an ill thoght move to recommend a skipper switch horses in the middle of the race. O'Kane teaches much, as it was the ideal position to fire in WW2. He will learn the concept of the lead angle calculated by the TDC, which cannot be avoided unless all the Attack Dials are set a zero. Let's wait until the poor SOB solves O'Kane, which is not that difficult, sinks some ships, and then he can move on to conquer his next problem.

O'Kane skips steps 2 and 4 in your scenario. How to you want him to calculate Aob? With the protractor tool, or are you using the Easy Aob mod? I am being rhetorical and do not need an answer. The point is that O'Kane works without those steps.

Razark, the constant bearing technique by RocknShoals is an attack with the TDC off. Like O'Kane, the TDC calculates the lead angle.

The most precise way to calculate the lead angle with the TDC off is gutted's Solution Solver Program. You can attack at any angle and the program will give you the lead angle. It is O'Kane gone berserk!

[Fish40]

I've been reading this thread, scratching my head trying to figure out where our friend is going wrong. I'm useing the same combo (RFB+RSRD), and regularly use the DO method with success. The most important piece of info with this method IMO is target speed. Getting this wrong will kill your setup. Reading along though, it seems you've tracked the convoy pretty accurately, and are confident with your figures.

I know you mention that you've watched RR's video a bunch of times, but then you say you entered the AOB as the first piece of info into the TDC. IIRC, RR enters the target speed first, AOB second, and range last. Speeking of range, are you "dragging" the small plastic triangle on the range dial down to it's maximum before entering the range by clicking twice? You seem like you know what you're doing, so please forgive my basic questions. Like I said, I'm useing the same mod combo, and DO works like a charm. I don't think this is either a RFB or even more so, a RSRD issue. RSRD only changes shipping routes to historical values. I would try to contact RR, or hopefully he sees this thread and chimes in. I believe this is a simple case of overlooking something simple.