Repeal of Obamacare

[Armistead]

What I find laughable is both sides alway agree the CBO's numbers are most correct. The CBO's number shows that the Dems plan saves much more money so what does the GOP do, ignore the CBO's numbers and create their own.

About 50% of businesses with over 50 employees provide some form of insurance. If you have less than 50, doesn't effect you, which is a majority of small business...so Obamacare isn't coverage for all.

Insurance corps will do everything to repeal government healthcare laws.
One of the most profitable corps ever. They didn't do so based on competition, but because they're a political monopoly.

Let's also be honest..if the Dems didn't bring up healthcare, the GOP wouldn't even be talking about anything, they would continue as is and all facts show as it will lead to a total breakdown in less than 20 years where only the elite class would have coverage.

Lack of medical insurance by all studies is much more expensive. Man gets sick, ignores illness , no insurance...get's chronically ill, spends all assets now trying to get care, goe's bankrupt and homeless...creditors eat that. Finally, on his last leg he runs to the emergency room condition life threatening. Cost go into 100's of thousands. He can no longer work, so now goes on an already overloaded medicare system and applies for SS, foodstamps,S8 housing, ect......This happens to thousands every year. Had he had early testing, could've been treated.

An average of 2 million people a year are now losing health coverage...yea, let's keep ignoring it.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by August

- Federal District Court Judge Henry Hudson

They already force us to buy a healthplan...Medicare. They also force us to buy a retirement plan....SS.

[AVGWarhawk]

Had he had early testing, could've been treated.

Oh sure.....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111602822.html

Women in their 40s should stop routinely having annual mammograms and older women should cut back to one scheduled exam every other year, an influential federal task force has concluded, challenging the use of one of the most common medical tests.

Early screening...not needed according to the Fed.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Oh sure.....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111602822.html



Early screening...not needed according to the Fed.

Take a visit to your local emergency room at a state run hospital. If someone is ill with no insurance and runs to a regular private doc, guess where they send them to get help. Guess what cost more. My daughter is a social worker at Baptist in Winston Salem NC, she signs all these people up. If someone is ill, she tells them to keep going and getting help regardless until you run up 6K in bills so you can get medicare, then the Doctors will take time to treat a chronic illness. Obvious you have to spend yourself into poverty first, no equity in a home, ect....many then put it off longer, but end up sicker, just go bankrupt, then qualify.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Take a visit to your local emergency room at a state run hospital. If someone is ill with no insurance and runs to a regular private doc, guess where they send them to get help. Guess what cost more. My daughter is a social worker at Baptist in Winston Salem NC, she signs all these people up. If someone is ill, she tells them to keep going and getting help regardless until you run up 6K in bills so you can get medicare, then the Doctors will take time to treat a chronic illness. Obvious you have to spend yourself into poverty first, no equity in a home, ect....many then put it off longer, but end up sicker, just go bankrupt, then qualify.

The hospital can absorb these unpaid costs. These are passed on to the folks who are paying for insurance. So tell me, why does it cost more? To cover those that do not have coverage? As far as running yourself into poverty: My wifes' aunt without any insurance had a gastric bypass surgery performed. When done she was put on a payment plan that she could afford.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Actually Mookie - you should read the item in question.

I did. Nice subtle jab at me, implying that I didn't, though. Don't do that. You're better than that.

The current "health care law" removes all choice when it comes to this - everyone is hit with the mandate - no matter what. Thus - you and the "blogger" are both trying to compare apples to oranges. Nice try - but its a different thing entirely.

I think you're missing the point. The government has been in the health insurance business going back to the 1790s.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

What I find laughable is both sides alway agree the CBO's numbers are most correct. The CBO's number shows that the Dems plan saves much more money so what does the GOP do, ignore the CBO's numbers and create their own.

About 50% of businesses with over 50 employees provide some form of insurance. If you have less than 50, doesn't effect you, which is a majority of small business...so Obamacare isn't coverage for all.

Insurance corps will do everything to repeal government healthcare laws.
One of the most profitable corps ever. They didn't do so based on competition, but because they're a political monopoly.

Let's also be honest..if the Dems didn't bring up healthcare, the GOP wouldn't even be talking about anything, they would continue as is and all facts show as it will lead to a total breakdown in less than 20 years where only the elite class would have coverage.

Lack of medical insurance by all studies is much more expensive. Man gets sick, ignores illness , no insurance...get's chronically ill, spends all assets now trying to get care, goe's bankrupt and homeless...creditors eat that. Finally, on his last leg he runs to the emergency room condition life threatening. Cost go into 100's of thousands. He can no longer work, so now goes on an already overloaded medicare system and applies for SS, foodstamps,S8 housing, ect......This happens to thousands every year. Had he had early testing, could've been treated.

An average of 2 million people a year are now losing health coverage...yea, let's keep ignoring it.

Good point and I am pretty sure everyone agrees the system needs to be changed in order to allow more access and reduce costs.However, Obamacare is blatantly unconstitutional due to the individual mandate and thus must be repealed and replaced as the GOP vowed to.Really should disturb everyone that Obama and the authors of this bill seek the power for the government to force citizens to purchase health insurance.They seek the power to penalize citizens for not doing so.Give them an inch, they will take a mile.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good point and I am pretty sure everyone agrees the system needs to be changed in order to allow more access and reduce costs.

of course it does. This bill however put the cart before the horse.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think you're missing the point. The government has been in the health insurance business going back to the 1790s.

Yes but not until now have we been forced to buy their product and all under the threat of fines and imprisonment if we dont do business with them.

I have been without insurance for the past 3 years.

I have been to the doctor twice in that span of time, and i paid in cash on both.

total cost has been about $165.00

a hell of a lot less than than the 3-5 thousand dollars i would have had to pay to any insurance company in that same 3 year period.

[Bilge_Rat]

Even though the Senate democrats could block repeal, there may be a problem with getting the support of the more moderate democrats who face re-election in 2012.

I would not be surprised if some sort of compromise was not passed by the Senate, with the backing of the White House, to repeal or scale back some of the more controversial aspects of the law, like the individual mandates.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Even though the Senate democrats could block repeal, there may be a problem with getting the support of the more moderate democrats who face re-election in 2012.

I would not be surprised if some sort of compromise was not passed by the Senate, with the backing of the White House, to repeal or scale back some of the more controversial aspects of the law, like the individual mandates.

which would be fine.

this SHOULD be all about working together - not cramming a law down peoples throats

[August]

Originally Posted by Armistead

They already force us to buy a healthplan...Medicare. They also force us to buy a retirement plan....SS.

And neither of those are private entities. What you're saying is there is no difference between paying excise tax to your town or paying excise tax to some private company.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Armistead

They already force us to buy a healthplan...Medicare. They also force us to buy a retirement plan....SS.

which are both pretty much bankrupt and cost huge heaps of taxpayer money.

what does that tell you about the upcoming Obamacare plan?

fact remains that we are living in a time when our government needs to be reducing the deficit, cutting pet projects from the budget and spending less money - when in fact what they are doing is spending record sums of money.

[GoldenRivet]

15 "rights" you will have when it comes down to the new health care law (from Texas Insider Magazine)

1. You will have the right to lose your job as employers struggle to comply with expensive mandates. According to labor economist Diana Furchtgott-Roth, those hit hardest will be younger, less-skilled workers. The cost of employing them will soar as employers are required to buy health insurance that may cost as much as a lower-wage person’s annual earnings.

High-tech workers will be hit as well. The $20 billion tax on medical-device companies, to take one example, will force companies to lay off researchers and curtail development of new products. And tens of thousands of insurance brokers will lose their livelihoods because of arbitrary regulations from Washington.

2. As a taxpayer, you will have the right to see the federal debt soar as Congress’s budget gimmicks face economic reality. According to former CBO director Doug Holtz-Eakin, Obamacare will cost nearly $1 trillion more than estimated as employers begin dropping health insurance and sending people to the new taxpayer-subsidized exchanges instead.

3. As a business owner, you will have the right to comply with the expensive new mandates in Obamacare or drop coverage and pay fines instead. You will have the right to keep the IRS informed about the coverage you are offering and its cost. And you will have the right to stop hiring and keep your business smaller than 50 people to escape Obamacare’s fines and mandates.

4. As an employee, you will have the right to lose the coverage you have now as you and 80 to 100 million people (according to McKinsey & Company analyst Alissa Meade) are switched to other coverage when Obamacare takes effect in 2014.

5. As a citizen, you will have the right to have the government decide what health insurance you must have and to either buy the expensive policy or pay a fine.

6. If you are a young person, you will have the right to pay higher premiums for mandatory health insurance to subsidize people who are older and sicker.


7. If you are a senior, you will have the right to see half a trillion dollars taken out of Medicare to pay for new health-insurance entitlements — a move allegedly designed to make Medicare stronger.


8. If you are in a Medicare Advantage plan, you and 7 million other seniors will have the right to go back into traditional Medicare and take your chances at finding a doctor who will see you.


9. If you are already on Medicaid, you will have the right to compete with millions more people trying to get appointments with doctors, especially specialists.


10. If you are one of the estimated 16 million people who will be added to the Medicaid rolls in 2014, you will have the right to wait in hospital emergency rooms for even routine care as the program swells to 87 million recipients by the end of the decade. (As many as 900,000 additional emergency room visits every year are expected — primarily by new enrollees in Medicaid — and from many of the 23 million people who will remain uninsured.)

11. If you are a doctor or nurse, you will have the right to receive lower Medicare payments while filling out mountains of new paperwork to satisfy government “quality reporting” requirements.

12. If you have child-only health insurance, you have the right to lose that coverage as more insurers exit the market. And you have the right to lose dependent coverage entirely as many employers decide it’s just too expensive to offer.


13. If you are an insurance company, you will have the right to figure out how you are going to continue to pay claims as government adds more expensive, mandatory benefits but caps premium increases at less than the cost of providing the coverage.


14. If you have a preexisting condition and are in a temporary high-risk pool, you and 8,000 others enrolled in the $5 billion program will have the right to pay high costs for your health insurance in the poorly designed program.


15. If you are a governor or state legislator, you will have the right to figure out what state services you will cut further — education? transportation? public safety? — to comply with the federal mandate that you expand Medicaid and set up the huge health-exchange bureaucracies. You also have the right to sue the federal government to protect your state’s rights.

[gimpy117]

2nd time...who brought up the tax credit idea for mandatory health insurance first? I'm pretty sure it was designed by you know who as an alternative to "hillarycare".

But im getting on my soap box now and saying this:

hospitals have become so expensive that the spiraling costs have started to jeopardize people's right to life.

much like college. who's skyrocketing costs are also threatening to ruin my generation's right to the pursuit of happiness.