Say what you will about Glenn Beck...

[UnderseaLcpl]

I'm not really a fan of Beck; conservative as I may be. His moral stance offends both my Libertarian and Christian sensibilities, even though I believe that there is a God and that he sent His only Son to die for our sins. I think Mark expressed it perfectly in his post. Matt 6:1 and 2 are a couple of my favorite verses in the Bible, and exemplary of the ideals of the Christian faith. Call me an idiot if you're one of the "enlightened" that is so arrogant as to presuppose that your knowledge of the world is so comprehensive as to be able to dismiss the existence of a benevolent God, or that your morality is so superior as to be above that of those who aspire to Christian ideals. I won't judge you, nor would I embrace a religion that did for simply being a person who was created with an innate curiosity for their place in the world.

But that's neither here nor there. The real issue being brought up here is Oprah Winfrey's reluctance to pay taxes. Progressive as she is, and having come from a poor background, one would think that she would be eager to give to the common good; and for the most part, she has done so. Oprah has donated millions of dollars to charities that she found to be worthy. But even she doesn't trust the government to do what is right with her money. She just wants the government to do what she thinks is desireable with your money. I hate to say it because it sounds so..well... Beckish, but the fact of the matter is that Oprah doesn't trust you with your own money. You don't know what is right for the nation, but she does.

If any of this sounds familiar it's because it has happened before. The elite have always taken it upon themselves to pass judgement on those they consider to be beneath them for the good of the nation and, coincidentally, their own good. It never fails to amaze me how often the Democratic electorate worships the wealthy princes they elect whilst ignoring their birth priviledges and and complete lack of personal regard for the common people. They are always quick to demand that people who actually produce things surrender their wealth, but they won't ever do it themselves. Foxtrot Uniform.

[gimpy117]

the idea of giving to the church instead of the government to help "social justice?" absurd.

The government pays for the roads, the cops, the fire department, national defense, schools, as well as its own "social justice programs". Or government gives oodles to the poor via aid every year. We help out in natural disasters etc.

The main problem about the church and ESPECIALLY the example of oprah trying to stand as an alternative to uncle sam helping the underprivileged in this nation is that not all of that money is spent in the US. Take oprah for example. Instead of building some school here in america...she goes to Africa and in a media frenzy builds this state of the art school in africa, while here in america schools in Detroit are literally falling apart. I remember some years ago a toilet fell through the floor in one.

Now imagine if oprah would have given that money to the DOE, or directly to schools in america?

This is just another one of these "libertarian magic dust" ideas that never work, under the impression that taxes are the devil and everything would work so much better if it was privatized and what not, thinking that responsible citizens will just freely give their money for the police etc. There was once something like that in america, fire depts were private. and if you couldn't afford the fee your house burned down.

Undersea also goes on to say that we all ought to have the government spend your money exactly the way yo want it. But we do. It's called the ballot box. If you think your money is being spent badly, elect somebody who will fight to get it spent that way. Democracy isn't some ale carte deal where you can pick and choose what parts you selfishly want for yourself.

[Tchocky]

High net worth individual dislikes paying taxes. Well blow me down.

[GoldenRivet]

so many people miss the point

nobody is saying the church should be in charge of social justice programs

im saying that if the government says "OK you owe $8,000 in taxes this year, and we are going to give 20 percent of that to social programs"

i think i should have the right to say

"Ok great, give all 20% to Aids research."

or

"Ok please give all 20% to programs that benefit homeless children"

as opposed to just signing a check - handing it to the tax man - and grumbling my way back home.

supposedly we can put a man on the moon, and create things like the space shuttle, or social networks as massive and sprawling as facebook and call ourselves "civilized"

BUT we cant pick the social programs our tax funds go to on an individual level???

[Tchocky]

I only want to fund the Army with this year's tax payments. I suspect witchcraft on the part of the "flying" services.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

so many people miss the point

nobody is saying the church should be in charge of social justice programs

im saying that if the government says "OK you owe $8,000 in taxes this year, and we are going to give 20 percent of that to social programs"

i think i should have the right to say

"Ok great, give all 20% to Aids research."

or

"Ok please give all 20% to programs that benefit homeless children"

as opposed to just signing a check - handing it to the tax man - and grumbling my way back home.

supposedly we can put a man on the moon, and create things like the space shuttle, or social networks as massive and sprawling as facebook and call ourselves "civilized"

BUT we cant pick the social programs our tax funds go to on an individual level???

well then vote a senator to a person who will work for homeless children.

[GoldenRivet]

ugh


just forget it.

[tater]

I see the point. Oprah has no problem giving millions to charity—she enjoys it. Paying TAXES, OTOH, makes her want a stiff drink.

She's an avowed left-Democrat, so why does she not enjoy paying her substantial tax bill? Why does she campaign and vote for candidates who want to raise taxes, then avail herself of tax cuts she supposedly disagrees with? Any principled Democrat should have paid extra taxes all these years to protest wrong-headed tax cuts, IMO.

If I felt that the small reduction in marginal rate offered by the Bush tax cuts was wrong, I'd elect to pay the pre-reduction rate. Failure to do so would make me a hypocrite.

The tithing thing is sort of the same. I'm not for that, I'm not religious. That said, people happily give that sort of % to something they LIKE, but would hate giving that same 10% instead to the government. Probably because they realize the government would waste that money.

[Harmsway!]

I'm a Christian.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Harmsway!

I'm a Christian.

careful spewing that around here

[mookiemookie]

I think people may be missing the point. Her tax bill is most likely pretty low. People with any substantial wealth will structure their investments and income so as to minimize their tax liability. The companies she owns are also structured to minimize their taxes paid.

She has a brand to maintain. The brand of being an approachable woman who's just like the ones who watch her at home - the kind of friend you'd invite over for coffee. She shares the same everyday trials and tribulations you do! She hates traffic (nevermind that she take a limo everywhere), she has bad hair days (nevermind that she has a team of stylists), she hates to pay her taxes...get it?

You can beat her up and call her a hypocrite all you want. But you need to realize that you've been suckered into her marketing image as much as anyone else.

[gimpy117]

yeah again, the rich make so much more money than we do but they moan about taxes the most, and get away with it. It's because although it may seem like a lot, take 30% of millions, and its a lot easier to make a living on what left over than it is 20% of 30,000.

[tater]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think people may be missing the point. Her tax bill is most likely pretty low. People with any substantial wealth will structure their investments and income so as to minimize their tax liability. The companies she owns are also structured to minimize their taxes paid.

She has a brand to maintain. The brand of being an approachable woman who's just like the ones who watch her at home - the kind of friend you'd invite over for coffee. She shares the same everyday trials and tribulations you do! She hates traffic (nevermind that she take a limo everywhere), she has bad hair days (nevermind that she has a team of stylists), she hates to pay her taxes...get it?

You can beat her up and call her a hypocrite all you want. But you need to realize that you've been suckered into her marketing image as much as anyone else.

I'm not suckered by anything. I said she campaigns for Democrats. Regardless of marketing, that is taking a public position on matters of policy (that's what an endorsement is, after all).

He tax bill, while it may have a very much lower effective rate is still no doubt huge. She's single, and a single share of last years budget, plus a single share of the entire national debt would only be 50-60 grand. How many shares will she pay this year?

How about all those on the left in here agree with me to push for the left to send everyone in the country a bill for their share of the national debt? As I recall it's like 45k per person, so 180 grand for a family of 4 to have their share paid in full. The IRS can work out a payment plan for those who can't just write a check for it. I'll pony up our 180 grand if everyone else will do likewise and be happy the problem is solved (as long as spending is then slashed so it never exceeds revenue except in the case of perhaps a declared war).

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Or like the church i attend semi-annually sending a team of Doctors and Nurses to third world countries to provide first rate free medical care to people who have diseases that would easily kill someone in such a nation.

Too bad we don't have groups doing the same in the US, if you are a poor American good luck getting first rate medical care...

[Reece]

Christian morels give flavor to the world, without it this would be a bitter place to live!!