Time to regulate Bible and samurai sword ownership

[Armistead]

Well yes, but it takes a lot of study. Not saying that was the only reason, but it was at the core base of many of the issues. The Puritans rejected the KJV because the council used many catholic texts for study, often using latin over the greek in translation. Overall they rejected the KJV wholesale. Many moved to Holland, but later came to America for so called religious freedom, although they themselves were of one mindset and one bible.

Some study of the reformation would also be helpful. It is obvious by their writings that the Puritans stood upon the shoulders of men like John Calvin, Martin Luther, Theodore Beza, and other first generation reformers. These in turn stood upon the shoulders of men like Augustine, and Chrysostom. These followed the Geneva bible.

In fact, one of the greatest ironies of history, is that Protestants of all denominations today embrace the King James Version of the Bible even though the King James Version is not a Protestant Bible (it’s Anglican / Church of England). It was produced by John Calvin, John Knox, Myles Coverdale, John Foxe, & other English refugees in ever-neutral Geneva,

"While many Protestants are quick to assign the full blame of persecution to the Roman Catholic Church, it should be noted that even after England broke from Roman Catholicism in the 1500’s, the Church of England (The Anglican Church) continued to persecute Protestants throughout the 1600’s. One famous example of this is John Bunyan, who while in prison for the crime of preaching the Gospel, wrote one of Christian history’s greatest books, Pilgrim’s Progress. Throughout the 1600’s, as the Puritans and the Pilgrims fled the religious persecution of England to cross the Atlantic and start a new free nation in America, they took with them their precious Geneva Bible, and rejected the King’s Bible. America was founded upon the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible."

Start here..
http://www.greatsite.com/facsimile-r...neva-1560.html

others

http://answers.yourdictionary.com/hi...o-america.html
http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/fa...s/puritans.pdf

We also had a long thread on it in a religious study forum that went over 2000 post. That was a year ago, but I'll try to find it.

The early church had the actual letters and almost first hand teaching. Like anything with man it took many roads.

Yeah, letters to help each other out is all, bit like a good forum I know.

Its difficult to expect the same fruits of the early church when we value a book they didnt have more than the Holy Spirit they did have. Bill Johnson.

Getting detracted by which bible to use is law, the very thing Jesus came to Free us from. I suppose the point I see above all, is that Freedom in the UK is being eroded and replace with ever incleasing amounts of law which the law makers break the same as every one else, honour means nothin.

The problem for people is one of control, Church uses the Bible to control us by bringing us under law, continually explaining what this scripture means or what that verse is trying to say. They change verses in Bibles to suite the requirements they expect from the sheep, us, heh. Instead of letting people discover by revalation what life and truth is.

Freedom is Spirit in the heart of everyone, it is under attack in the Freeworld like never before. Leaders lie and deceive their peoples to get them into wars they don't need, but we do not see the deception because we are blind to it, what we see is the law, this is our captivity being engineered. God gave Moses 10 laws to live by, by the time Jesus arrived the pharasees had increased the laws to 650 and people lived under the thumb of leaders and their laws.

sorry about this going on folks, but Freedom is my biggest passion, by far.

sid

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

Yeah, letters to help each other out is all, bit like a good forum I know.



Getting detracted by which bible to use is law, the very thing Jesus came to Free us from. I suppose the point I see above all, is that Freedom in the UK is being eroded and replace with ever incleasing amounts of law which the law makers break the same as every one else, honour means nothin.

The problem for people is one of control, Church uses the Bible to control us by bringing us under law, continually explaining what this scripture means or what that verse is trying to say. They change verses in Bibles to suite the requirements they expect from the sheep, us, heh. Instead of letting people discover by revalation what life and truth is.

Freedom is Spirit in the heart of everyone, it is under attack in the Freeworld like never before. Leaders lie and deceive their peoples to get them into wars they don't need, but we do not see the deception because we are blind to it, what we see is the law, this is our captivity being engineered. God gave Moses 10 laws to live by, by the time Jesus arrived the pharasees had increased the laws to 650 and people lived under the thumb of leaders and their laws.

sorry about this going on folks, but Freedom is my biggest passion, by far.

sid

Well, biblcally speaking, believers in Christ don't live under Mosaic biblical law. There's a difference between God's moral law and Jewish Mosaic codes. No doubt religious codes dictated most secular law, don't kill, steal, ect.

Remember, Jewish law was for the Jews only. Certainly every belief system makes up it's own so called codes of conduct for sin. We don't call it breaking the law today, we call it partaking of sin...

Christ freed us from the law of sin and replaced it with grace and love. You're correct, man has used many codes to define what is sin. Smart people that think for themselves test things with an open mind, not just believe what someone tells them is right or wrong.

There were lot's of problems with early Jewish and Gentile Christians. Many Jewish christians still followed many customs and laws from the past, the Gentiles didn't. When they came together they argued over what was right. Paul told them they both were right and just to get along and respect each others beliefs.

And why the hell do we need to "believe"? Why is it any issue to the world that "we" don't have "faith and belief"?

because to design and make a simple thing like a light bulb takes both

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

because to design and make a simple thing like a light bulb takes both

This makes sense how?

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

This makes sense how?

I think he means you have to believe your invention is going to work, because if you don't you're not gonna work on it and it will never be invented.

Still, this is a totally different kind of "belief" so it doesn't compare.

Still, this is a totally different kind of "belief" so it doesn't compare.

Faith and belief go hand in hand and are the same in everyone

A lot of leaders in Church today have trouble in believing, how can that be.
Because the fruits of belief are not there. What are the fruits of believing, light bulbs, mad people flying flimsey aircraft across the Atlantic, the idea of walking on the moon. These events are the fruits of Faith and belief in action, God has given every one of us a portion of this Faith, it's in the bible some where, you'll have to look it up yourself, lol.

The unbeliever or even the athiest believes in God more than he realizes, probable more than most middle class church leaders do today. When Jesus was teaching the people about faith and belief, the example that God gave the people was not a Church leader or elder, but a centurion soldier, a man who understood and practiced faith and belief every day, you don't get more radical than that. The church today is about control and law, the very things that Jesus came to free us from. Every religion is just that, religion nothing more. faith and belief are about people

sid: creator of fine slots

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Not saying that was the only reason...

My objection wasn't to your comments on Anglicanism vs Puritanism vs Catholicism but you your specific comment "...our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV." Only a very few people came here seeking 'religious freedom', and I don't believe that which version of the bible they read had anything to do with it. That is what I asked for documentation on.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

My objection wasn't to your comments on Anglicanism vs Puritanism vs Catholicism but you your specific comment "...our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV." Only a very few people came here seeking 'religious freedom', and I don't believe that which version of the bible they read had anything to do with it. That is what I asked for documentation on.

Actually if you study the issue, many of the Puritans {believers in the Geneva bible and Doctrine} were persecuted by the COE, {KJV believers} many tortured and killed.

The actual core of them wanting to come to America was over this. They hated the KJV with it's taint of Rome and the latin vulgate. They refused any KJV bible and brought with them their beloved Geneva. You're wrong to assume people came here for religious freedom per say. More one group of believers left than many with different beliefs. Those that came did so with one religious mindset, not seeking religious freedom for all. All in all, only about a 10% difference between the two, but some big differences.

If you study the links in detail, it's rather clear, but again a long study.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Actually if you study the issue, many of the Puritans {believers in the Geneva bible and Doctrine} were persecuted by the COE, {KJV believers} many tortured and killed.

The actual core of them wanting to come to America was over this. They hated the KJV with it's taint of Rome and the latin vulgate. They refused any KJV bible and brought with them their beloved Geneva. You're wrong to assume people came here for religious freedom per say. More one group of believers left than many with different beliefs. Those that came did so with one religious mindset, not seeking religious freedom for all. All in all, only about a 10% difference between the two, but some big differences.

If you study the links in detail, it's rather clear, but again a long study.

First, while I'm trying to cure myself of being a grammar nazi, especially when it's someone I'm disagreeing with, I have to point out that the phrase is per se, Latin for "by itself" or "of itself". I apologize, but that's one that drives me crazy.

Again, my exception wasn't that your arguments, it was to your assertion that this argument was responsible for the founding of the United States.

Virginia: Agriculture and wealth.
Delaware: Founded as New Sweden so the Dutch government could gain a foothold in the New World.
North Carolina: Founded by Virginians seeking to expand.
South Carolina: As North Carolina.
New Jersey: Founded as part of the ex-New Netherlands contract. The founders promised new settlers religious freedom, but that was to attract workers for an economic charter. They also promised representative government for the same reason.
New York: Founded by James, Duke of York, as part of the New Netherlands settlement. Economic.
Pennsylvania: Founded so the Quakers could have religious freedom. They had their own bible, but hostility toward the KJV does not seem to be a part of the reason they came here. Pennsylvania was arguably the first colony to guarantee true freedom of worship to all its citizens. The puritans of Massachussetts certainly did not.
Georgia: Founded as a place for those in debtor's prison to start a new life, and as a buffer to the Spanish holdings in Florida.

So of the original thirteen colonies, only two were founded for religious reasons, and only Massachussetts had the Puritans. The US was mostly founded by economic expansionists and the English Government, which wanted their own foothold in the new world.