[TEC] Using SCAF for RSRDC v502 with RSRDC v575

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Well, that could be true!!!!!!

I admit until recently, I would have argued with you. But, in learning what the different resolutions do to the game views I'm here to tell you SCAF is as inaccurate as the stock game, depending on the resolution you use!!

For a bit of background, I asked the question "What resolution do you use?" found HERE in this post. Go ahead and take a read of why I asked the question......... I'll wait.



(Turn on the musical interlude please )



Ok, you back?

The game has a different ratio of size when using the various screen resolutions. Well to be exact, it has two. The 1280x1024 compared to all the rest!! Why in the world did this happen? Well good luck in getting an answer from the devs. They've moved on to SH V and probably took their mistakes with them.

You may ask why is this important to SCAF? Because I used the 1280x1024 resolution to make the darn thing!! So anyone who uses SCAF with a 1280x1024 screen size sees what I see. The mod is capable of rendering accurate manual found range because it was calibrated on the 1280x1024 size.

The others, not so much.

Actually, I think I wouldn't use it unless you have the resolution set to 1280x1024. I found this stock game discrepancy out when I was making my first checks of an "Optical Targeting Assist" mod I'm planning on releasing (I put a link to its WIP earlier in this thread). I've been with this game since day one, and had never heard anyone mention this little fact about the resolutions not being consistent through out. Wouldn't you know it, it's on the native resolution I use for my modding!?!

Since I know it now, I'll have two versions of the "Optical Targeting Assist", one for 1280x1024, one for the rest. It's my plan to have the new mod carry on the SCAF ship calibration of both correct height and length, with the added correction to the optical world to see things as they should. I'm not looking forward to having to make additional versions for the various "supermods" as was needed with keeping SCAF up to date whenever a newer version was spit out. But, since the games getting long in the tooth, the patches and updates made by these mods are becoming fewer and fewer. So maybe I can keep up.

Yep...I doubted it was a matter of resolution

Mine is 1440x900

However video settings of the game don't let me use 1280x1024

Last night SCAF made me missing two lonely CA's at 1350 yds (dunno why those stupid Japs sent two lonely CA's in the Java Sea without escorts)

Without SCAF in a previous engagement I sank 2 CA's

Now the question is

Why does targeting work with stock game at a resolution of 1440x900 and SCAF doesn't?

[Armistead]

What were you aiming points? Many of the ships still use the highest points, so it helps to check, I do know the CA's have various measuring points, highest point, wheel house, ect....

Doubt that's it, but a common mistake many others have made.

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by Armistead

What were you aiming points? Many of the ships still use the highest points, so it helps to check, I do know the CA's have various measuring points, highest point, wheel house, ect....

Doubt that's it, but a common mistake many others have made.

Aiming at red line in SCAF

I replayed the engagement already cited in my second patrol in the Java Sea without SCAF

Well...I sank the first Takao cruiser with 3 hits

The second Takao one went circling around the first...dunno why it did so...maybe to rescue survivors?

well...I sank it with 2 hits

Difficulty realistic...except event camera ON and update contacts on Nav map ON

I coudn't resist to have event camera ON

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Robin40

Yep...I doubted it was a matter of resolution

Mine is 1440x900

However video settings of the game don't let me use 1280x1024

Last night SCAF made me missing two lonely CA's at 1350 yds (dunno why those stupid Japs sent two lonely CA's in the Java Sea without escorts)

Without SCAF in a previous engagement I sank 2 CA's

Now the question is

Why does targeting work with stock game at a resolution of 1440x900 and SCAF doesn't?

Robin40, did you take the time to read the thread I linked to earlier? The one where I asked "What resolution do you use"?

Here it is in a nutshell. The image below shows an Akita Maru (Medium Old Composite) at a distance of 1001 yards (check the Position Keeper). The game is completely in stock, NO MODS. The resolution of the game is set to 1280x1024. Measuring the length of the ship, the stock Telemeter divisions (that's the black marks on the stock scope) count 21 and 1/3.




OK, lets take the same ship at the same distance (how do I do this? I've got test missions I've made through the mission editor with ships specifically "anchored" off from my stationary "anchored" sub), and now lets read the Telemeter divisions. 22 and 3/4 (could be read 23). So the image above reads 21 & 1/3 and the image below reads almost 23. What makes the difference?






The second image is running the game in a resolution of 1024x768!!! See the difference in size of the objects on the image? The position keeper is a bit larger at 1024x than at 1280x.

The point is the stock game has a different "Camera" size (that's what they call the changeable "world" image shown in the periscope lens) for the 1024x768 compared to the 1280x1024.


You may say, "So what!? Makes sense to have different sized targets at different resolutions"!! Yes it would, if the game offered different measurements for the two different sizes. It does not!!! One ship height (or length) per ship is what you get, even though the size of the ship is seen differently. Making Stadimeter readings for one resolution size DIFFERENT, compared to making Stadimeter readings for another. Even when the ship is sitting at the same distance away from the sub you will get a different manual found range. The position of the Stadimeter is different because the mast top is different (like the length of the ship in the two above images).


Robin40, you said you use the 1440x900 resolution. When I was going through the different resolutions, my two computers (the one I use for mod making has a 19' screen, yes it's not an LCD "wide screen", the other I push the game through a 32" 1920x1080 HD TV) found the same size difference between the 1024x768 and the 1280x1024.


What I also found out was the only difference in ship size came from the 1280x1024.


All the other resolution:
1024x768
1152x864
1280x768
1280x800
1280x960
1360x768
1360x1024
1490x900
1600x1200
1680x1050
1792x1344
1920x1080


All had the same ship size when compared to each other.

They all read at the 23 Telemeter division on the scope (even though some of the resolutions were distorted). None of them read 21 1/3. The only resolution that read 21 1/3 (on both my computers) was the 1280x1024!! And if you have read what I've said, it's on the 1280x1024 resolution I made SCAF. That's been my working and playing computer for SH3 and 4 for years.


I admit it, I'm convinced by my own tests, SCAF will correct manual targeting IF YOU USE THE 1280x1024 RESOLUTION. If you wish to see for yourselves, download this JSGME compatible "Optical Missions Test Pack" found HERE and run the "Test 21" mission that will appear in the Single Missions folder of the game menu. Try it on different resolutions to see the difference. No difference until you get to 1280x1024.

All the others like your 1490x900 not a chance!!!! Yes, you may be able to do better with the stock heights at these other resolutions. Although the stock Hiyru mast height of 31 meters is off no matter what resolution you use!!

It was just a chance finding when I discovered this resolution anomaly. But what makes me sad is the devs never did a thing to patch this glitch. Because I looked at my game world through a 1280x1024 lens, I just assumed the game resolutions for the rest of you saw the same things I did.


I was wrong.

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Robin40, did you take the time to read the thread I linked to earlier? The one where I asked "What resolution do you use"?

Here it is in a nutshell. The image below shows an Akita Maru (Medium Old Composite) at a distance of 1001 yards (check the Position Keeper). The game is completely in stock, NO MODS. The resolution of the game is set to 1280x1024. Measuring the length of the ship, the stock Telemeter divisions (that's the black marks on the stock scope) count 21 and 1/3.




OK, lets take the same ship at the same distance (how do I do this? I've got test missions I've made through the mission editor with ships specifically "anchored" off from my stationary "anchored" sub), and now lets read the Telemeter divisions. 22 and 3/4 (could be read 23). So the image above reads 21 & 1/3 and the image below reads almost 23. What makes the difference?






The second image is running the game in a resolution of 1024x768!!! See the difference in size of the objects on the image? The position keeper is a bit larger at 1024x than at 1280x.

The point is the stock game has a different "Camera" size (that's what they call the changeable "world" image shown in the periscope lens) for the 1024x768 compared to the 1280x1024.


You may say, "So what!? Makes sense to have different sized targets at different resolutions"!! Yes it would, if the game offered different measurements for the two different sizes. It does not!!! One ship height (or length) per ship is what you get, even though the size of the ship is seen differently. Making Stadimeter readings for one resolution size DIFFERENT, compared to making Stadimeter readings for another. Even when the ship is sitting at the same distance away from the sub you will get a different manual found range. The position of the Stadimeter is different because the mast top is different (like the length of the ship in the two above images).


Robin40, you said you use the 1440x900 resolution. When I was going through the different resolutions, my two computers (the one I use for mod making has a 19' screen, yes it's not an LCD "wide screen", the other I push the game through a 32" 1920x1080 HD TV) found the same size difference between the 1024x768 and the 1280x1024.


What I also found out was the only difference in ship size came from the 1280x1024.


All the other resolution:
1024x768
1152x864
1280x768
1280x800
1280x960
1360x768
1360x1024
1490x900
1600x1200
1680x1050
1792x1344
1920x1080


All had the same ship size when compared to each other.

They all read at the 23 Telemeter division on the scope (even though some of the resolutions were distorted). None of them read 21 1/3. The only resolution that read 21 1/3 (on both my computers) was the 1280x1024!! And if you have read what I've said, it's on the 1280x1024 resolution I made SCAF. That's been my working and playing computer for SH3 and 4 for years.


I admit it, I'm convinced by my own tests, SCAF will correct manual targeting IF YOU USE THE 1280x1024 RESOLUTION.

All the others like your 1490x900 not a chance!!!! Yes, you may be able to do better with the stock heights at these other resolutions. Although the stock Hiyru mast height of 31 meters is off no matter what resolution you use!!

It was just a chance finding when I discovered this resolution anomaly. But what makes me sad is the devs never did a thing to patch this glitch. Because I looked at my game world through a 1280x1024 lens, I just assumed the game resolutions for the rest of you saw the same things I did.


I was wrong.

HI Cap...we may only say:
Why on hell did you use the 1280x1024 resolution?

My SH4 video options don't let me use the 1280x1024 resolution

Thus the only thing you have to do is to make a revised SCAF version for the rest of the world

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Robin40

HI Cap...we may only say:
Why on hell did you use the 1280x1024 resolution?

And, why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other......!!!

Yep, using the only resolution that has this problem didn't help me a bit!!

In my defense, at one time before LCD's and wide screen monitors, 1280x1024 resolutions were the "native" resolutions of many monitors that had gotten away from the 800x600 limitations. CRT monitors were set to a specific aspect ratio and had been for years going back to the "Which color screen do you want? Amber or Green"? (Ok, I'm really dating myself now!!). But, there had been no reason to think UBISoft would have let one screen resolution through that was different from the rest.

So yes, making another SCAF to fit the other resolutions is a possibility. For right now I'm putting my efforts towards the "Optical Targeting Assist" that will be much like SCAF except it corrects the "world view" through its optic changes and calibrates the correct mast heights to read correctly with those changes. Kind of like an overall correction to the game world. It won't fix the resolution problem I've found, but now that I know it exists I can have two versions to suit the different resolutions it effects.

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

============

Hey Webster, I do want to show you the Javlins .sim file and where it causes the ship to sit too low in the water. The stock games .sim file is overlaying the file from GFO 1.1. Notice the "Mass:" entry of the stock game is 1688.5 tons. GFO has 2330.0 tons. I don't know where this figure came from (I don't mess around with this file) but putting the stock tonnage back into the file raised the ship back to its regular height. Just thought I'd pass it on.

wow thanks for noticing that i'll add it to my notes of things to tweak in hopes one day i find time to redo a new version of GFO

the sim file changes are most likely from my manuvering fix and mass wasnt part of the changes i used so that must be something from the experimental tests that somehow got mixed up with the good files.

i wish i had time to redo all the small stuff and fine tune GFO as things get reported but i barely have time for even checking in here once in a while so i dont even get time to play silent hunter much less mod it.