Your fav method of shooting.

[Armistead]

I know we all have our preference method of shooting, OKane, Vector, 8010, ect..what is yours?
So many talk of using them, but I seldom do. I once lived by these mehtods, moreso with contacts on. They work great on single ships, but face it, a single ship comes my way, I'll TC until it's at about 350 at 600 yards, stad it and shoot, never miss.

I seldom use any type OKane attack when attacking a TF. With contacts off it's really impossible. I am getting better with the new radar mod and using pause. Often I find it leaves me in a bad position. Cromwell certainly is how I will setup as I approach at a better angle, less likely to get pinged and able to turn my sterns into the mix, but still very limiting. With TMO, many times an outer escort will sense you before you can fire regardless of perfection of approach.

Mainly, in a TF or large convoy the ships I want may be in the worse position to use OKane type attacks. This is more of a problem with contacts off. Simply I may have to change direction several times while approaching submerged, dodging escorts and working into a decent shooting position, impossible to stay on a fixed course. Then you may have 30 seconds to fire, so it's usually a quick manual setup and shoot a spread by the wire.

[Sammi79]

I have played SH4 for 3-4 years now after spending even more time on SH3. I play only with full realism and use Lurkers fantastic Op Monsun Mod aswell as many personal modifications for real navigation, realistic deckgun etc.. with Karamazownevs scope measuring dial being the ultimate targetting tool. Upon sighting a vessel I watch its smoke trail for maybe a few minutes and then take a guess as to which way it is heading. I try to match course, at flank speed. Every few minutes I watch the smoke trail and adjust course, making marks on the map and with a little prediction and observation normally manage to get a pretty damn accurate idea of target position and heading. Then I continue ahead until the target is out of sight, turn 90 degrees toward the target and again using map marking and prediction try to stop where I think the target will pass in front of my boat at a distance of 1km and submerge.

Listening on sonar until target is within periscope visual again. The only help I use is the identify target, then finding in the recog manual the correct target dimensions measure the speed on the stopwatch and the AOB. At this point I may adjust to get a closer range and a more perpendicular shot unless I feel it is close enough to 90 within about 15-20 degrees. as the target aproaches, I listen on sonar until target is at about 60 degrees port or starboard. then periscope up, measure range, speed & AOB all within about 1 minute. periscope down. wait until 45 degrees on sonar then repeat every 10 degrees until consecutive measurements match new position then leave position keeper (or german equivalent) on and turn scope to show 90 degree impact normally at 5 or 10 degrees and wait scope down. depending on size of ship arm 1-3 torps and open tubes. wait for 15-20 degrees on sonar then scope up.

Aim at smokestack now at 15 degrees, fire 1. wait 5-10 secs, fire 2 etc... scope down. wait for impact. upon first hit am certain of consecutive hits. surface immediately and man deckgun. due to possibility of duds or ship not yet sunk, occasionally 5-10 rounds with deckgun before 'she's going down sir!' 90%+ hit rate with this method I don't know how you call it. with convoys, allways target biggest ship with 3 torps and smaller one with last tube. have to work alot quicker though and hit rate goes down, 60-70% i'd say. Also no surfacing rather a quick and deep dive then silent run, then the real game begins... the satisfaction is immense better then any other game i have ever played.

[Diopos]

Actually the problem is not the shooting method. The problem, for me at least, is knowing/getting target speed and course. Then you can "shift" firing methods as the actual situation dictates. If there is no flanking DD near by, O'Kane is great, if it is "out there" and a more "angled" approach is dictated, no problem as long as you have speed+course and the opportunity to fire before you get detected.
For convoys I must admit I am a victim of "auto targeting maximum tube utilization syndrome" (!). When I played on "auto" I tried to get "in" the convoy and perpendicular to its course. With "auto" you could "shoot the ducks" from both the bow and aft tubes and score a tonnage an actual WW2 skipper would need 6 months to get. You could get rammed during the attempt of course, but the game is soooo forgiving when it comes to that! After getting that bad habit, I still pursue the notion of trying to hit multiple targets in a convoy. 0-gyro angle torpedo firing allows for that as long as you know that god damn speed+course. I must admit though, that, eventually, many times I simply "stad" a target that seems more "hitable" and get the hell "outa there" as I am already pinged, and my target speed+course estimation was "rough".
So for me the "challenge" is not the actual shooting but having collected the appropriate and valid "numbers" (data) before. Now, I'm not sure if that's the mark of a good skipper or a typical accountant! And it is that aspect of the game I'm trying to "explore" (whenever I find the time).

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[tomoose]

...to pretty much using the standard "by the book" techniques and tools that come with the boat. While I definitely sucked at the beginning I have become quite adept and have developed a knack for calculating (and tweaking) a target's speed and AOB. Part of my success I attribute to not focussing on hitting a specific point on the target but rather just hitting the target, LOL.

I play as "realistically" as possible and am quite satisfied if I return from a patrol with only one or two sinkings. I have never run out of fuel and I have had only minor damage from a delayed reaction to "aircraft spotted".

[NorthBeach]

The very few singles I am willing to expend a torp for are approached with the O'Kane in mind. For convoys and TFs I generally opt for a Cromwell, but, with ts carefully noted so that I have the VA lead angle on hand if it degenerates into needing it. There have been times, when feeling ambitious, where I'll go for multiples starting with a far reaching VA at 45deg (fast setting), followed by a Cromwell (slow) for a medium distance target, then a third with either of them depending on target position. On the rare occasion that I'm inside the convoy, I'll might try to swing the boat for an aft O'Kane. But, that rarely goes well after roiling up the water with 6 torps.

[Rockin Robbins]

On convoys I try to get a single shot off for the largest target from 2000 yards or under in TMO. Then I can actually get the shot off, turn tail and run before the escorts swarm me. Whether the shot hits or not, this pulls the escorts to my side of the convoy.

I'm exiting out the back at high speed to cross their sterns and do the end around to the unguarded side of the convoy. When I get there there's gonna be hell to pay!

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

On convoys I try to get a single shot off for the largest target from 2000 yards or under in TMO. Then I can actually get the shot off, turn tail and run before the escorts swarm me. Whether the shot hits or not, this pulls the escorts to my side of the convoy.

I'm exiting out the back at high speed to cross their sterns and do the end around to the unguarded side of the convoy. When I get there there's gonna be hell to pay!

But Oh Master RR whose adivised us all, what methods do you use, any of your great designs, maybe 8010, please, we want to know. I assumed you would be king on OKane, Vector, but regardless of real life, do you really use these tools on TF to effect..Do you not find them ...limiting.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by NorthBeach

The very few singles I am willing to expend a torp for are approached with the O'Kane in mind. For convoys and TFs I generally opt for a Cromwell, but, with ts carefully noted so that I have the VA lead angle on hand if it degenerates into needing it. There have been times, when feeling ambitious, where I'll go for multiples starting with a far reaching VA at 45deg (fast setting), followed by a Cromwell (slow) for a medium distance target, then a third with either of them depending on target position. On the rare occasion that I'm inside the convoy, I'll might try to swing the boat for an aft O'Kane. But, that rarely goes well after roiling up the water with 6 torps.

Man, that's some skill, I don't have the brains to go from one attack to the next in a matter of seconds, I envy those that can.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Armistead

But Oh Master RR whose adivised us all, what methods do you use, any of your great designs, maybe 8010, please, we want to know. I assumed you would be king on OKane, Vector, but regardless of real life, do you really use these tools on TF to effect..Do you not find them ...limiting.

I tend to be like you in that I expend my efforts in establishing enemy course and speed, then pick the trick that seems to fit best. Because it is a harder shot to avoid, because my default plan is to escape away and behind the convoy and because it is a bit more error tolerant than the Cromwell method I tend to take that first long distance shot with a Dick O'Kane approach. I've still been skunked by DDs detecting me before I can fire though! It happens with TMO: no guarantees there at all. Ain't that why we love it?

Here's the outcome of too many convoy approaches in TMO:


Fail!

Vector analysis (#1) or Dick O'Kane but the others are always options. However, final targeting choice is always based on the current tactical situation and never drives the method of approach.

[Rockin Robbins]

Vector analysis sure is the most versatile method out there for zero gyro attacks. You know, straight fire shooting (gyro angles under 20º) are really important in mitigating possible range errors.

Even with conventional position keeper stadimeter setups, a low gyro angle can make your shooting just as accurate as Dick O'Kane, John P Cromwell or vector analysis attacks.

It's not which method you use, it's whether you shoot smart or just shoot! Heck, if you're close enough you can eyeball the lead angle and shoot the zero gyro without anything in the TDC at all. You'll get plenty of hits. A quarterback in American football (the ONLY kind. hehehehehe!) doesn't have a TDC and they still hit some of their targets.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I tend to be like you in that I expend my efforts in establishing enemy course and speed, then pick the trick that seems to fit best. Because it is a harder shot to avoid, because my default plan is to escape away and behind the convoy and because it is a bit more error tolerant than the Cromwell method I tend to take that first long distance shot with a Dick O'Kane approach. I've still been skunked by DDs detecting me before I can fire though! It happens with TMO: no guarantees there at all. Ain't that why we love it?

Here's the outcome of too many convoy approaches in TMO:


Fail!

I'm not smart with all of this. Like a previos poster going from OKane to Cromwell to Vector all in one attack. Not sure how you set that up, unless you just put yourself so the bearing required is right then subtract.


Thinking it through can it not be possible to do OKane, ect..without drawing any lines at all, just have yourself at the right bearing whatever and subtract for aob and shoot by the wire..make sense. That being you already have speed.

I find it difficult to pull off such attacks with contacts off.

Slight question? could some one please explain each of the tactics to me?? as I have yet to get the game and would like to know the different firing approaches and tactics on TF and lone ships.

[NorthBeach]

One of the things I took to heart as I have been lurking, for the most part, for the past couple of years, it the importance of getting course and speed of the target down as precisely as possible. The more solid the data, the more solid the solution.

Armistead- Switching between methods isn't really as hard as it sounds. Hundreds of reps imprint the aob/range & bearing changes that need to be made in the TDC. One thing that helps is, long ago, I figured out the lead angles for targets running at 6kts to 30kts for both fast (46kts) and slow (31kts) torp speeds. Printed them out, laminated them, and keep it nearby. That said, the Pacific is full of unexpended metal tubes sitting on the bottom with my name on them.

RR- The reason I set up for convoys and TFs using Cromwell is YOU! You clued me into the End Around. It didn't take a wedgie from the Admiral to figure out the advantages of being on the opposite side of the convoy as the escorts. I figured if I could get the first volley off with my boat already pointed half way toward the rear of the convoy, I can beat feet to rear that much faster.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by NorthBeach

One of the things I took to heart as I have been lurking, for the most part, for the past couple of years, it the importance of getting course and speed of the target down as precisely as possible. The more solid the data, the more solid the solution.

Armistead- Switching between methods isn't really as hard as it sounds. Hundreds of reps imprint the aob/range & bearing changes that need to be made in the TDC. One thing that helps is, long ago, I figured out the lead angles for targets running at 6kts to 30kts for both fast (46kts) and slow (31kts) torp speeds. Printed them out, laminated them, and keep it nearby. That said, the Pacific is full of unexpended metal tubes sitting on the bottom with my name on them.

RR- The reason I set up for convoys and TFs using Cromwell is YOU! You clued me into the End Around. It didn't take a wedgie from the Admiral to figure out the advantages of being on the opposite side of the convoy as the escorts. I figured if I could get the first volley off with my boat already pointed half way toward the rear of the convoy, I can beat feet to rear that much faster.

Not so sure about that. Seems to me it would be hard to do an OKane attack, then next ship a Cromwell, the next Vector. For one you're in the edge of the TF, next you would have to pull off each attack before the first torp hit. No way you could go to your map and set up the different angles in that brief matter of seconds. The only way I see possible is to eyeball each attack, and then from whatever bearing, subtract to get your AOB and fire.

Not sure what you mean by figuring out lead angles. I assume you mean the standard lead angles used in OKane/Cromwell based on if a ship is going fast or slow, probably the little chart RR has long had for each attack. I don't see how that has any bearing on pulling off these 3 methods basically at the same time. As stated the only possible way I see is to set a new bearing , probably wouldn't put you on a 90 or 45 degree line, then set your AOB and try to shoot at 10-15 degrees in front of the bearing you set. Technically the maddness would work no matter what your approach is, but it wouldn't be a true OKane or Cromwell attack. Highly unlikely each ship would just fall in place that you could do one method after the other

Why these attack methods are sound, great for singles or small groups with just a few escorts, they can fix you along a path that may run you right in front of a DD.