[REQ] Maintain depth fix

[andycaccia]

Hi Petr,
I've tried the same fix you're talking about, but it left me disappointed.
So I made one myself. There is nothing scientific about it, I only tried again and again by changing mass values in the .sim values of each boat with a brute force approach, but at the end the results were good indeed. My fix works for all boats (I did not change the VIIA, but i guess it can be fixed as the others).

If you're interested I could explain how I did it..

[TheDarkWraith]

please explain away

[andycaccia]

Ok guys, here is the trick...but beware! There are some side effects...

It's a very simple tweak, provided that you are familiar with Goblin Editor
(if it's not your case, there is a simple guide:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165805 ).

Now, open any of the u boats .gr2 file. Let's take the VIIB for example, but it will work on every model, now merge the NSS_Uboat7b.GR2 with the proper NSS_Uboat7b.sim file.

under "NSS_Uboat7b.sim" open the "unit_Submarine @ NSS_Uboat7b"
in the new window select the "unit_submarine", found under the "Render" tree.

And here we go, now pay attention...

1) find the *mass* value in unit_Submarine -->unit_Ship-->obj_Hydro, here change the value to 852.8.

2) now go for "surfaced"--> "displacement" and set the value to 853,
do he same with "submerged"--> "dispalecement" and set to 857.

3) last thing, search for the "Front_diveplane" and "Rear_diveplane" under "unit_Ship" and set the "drag" and "prop_fact" to 0.1 and 0 respectively for both dive planes.

And it's done. With theese little tweaks my VIIB and VIIC boats work like a dream. They keep depth very very well down to 200 meters. There is still a lite sinking effect, but nothing like the stock game. Now if your boat is at 220m and you keep running at 1knot the boat will not sink anymore. Even if you stop the engines and loose some meters (but it's very slow), as soon as you gain movement the boat will stablize itself at ordered depth.

Additional tweak: I don't know if it has a real impact on the game, but I've boosted the power of the electric motors as well, just to make sure the boat has the necessary horsepower to make it against the water resistance while climbing up when rudders are in rise position..
under "E_propulsion" set the "eng_power" value to 1500 (which was the real total power output of the electric motors anyway 750+750). Note that this will not affect the u boat speed while submerged, only the acceleration.

I Think it's everything.


OH NO! I almost forgot the in-famous side effects...
well, nothing serious really.. only diving times are a LOT FASTER.
A possible solution is to adjust the values under the "Ballast" tree, although I have not tested.

P:S Sorry for my poor English, I hope it is clear enough...

[longam]

And your releasing this mod when?

[andycaccia]

Actually I haven't planned a mod release, because there are some other tests and adjustments to be made. The problem is that I have almost no time and a poor machine (Pentium 4HT 3.0Ghz + Radeon x 1800) that barely allows me to launch the game, with epic loading times and frequent CTDs and/or BEX error (Buffer overflow Exceptions) that prevent me from doing my modding proprely.
I guess I could release a beta version as soon as possible, but I will need time for a complete release.

I'll keep you informed.

Anyway longam, you can do this yourself, it's very easy! It will take less than 10 minutes to modify all sim files for all 4 U boats (from VIIA to VIIC/41).

[eon850aye]

Originally Posted by andycaccia

under "E_propulsion" set the "eng_power" value to 1500 (which was the real total power output of the electric motors anyway 750+750).

Sorry to be a stickler for historic specification, and sorry for kicking you repeatedly whilst down, but strictly speaking, this isn't true.
I was in the middle of moving house when SH5 was released & my typeVII bible (Anatomy of the Ship - The Type VII U-boat by David Westwood, taken from his Ph.D thesis on German U-boats from 1935-45) was packed away, dug it out this morning...
...it says

Type VIIa
2 BBC (Brown Boveri & Co) GG UB 720/8 electric motors totalling 750shp

Type VIIb
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors totalling 750shp

Type VIIc
U's 69-72, 89, 93-98, 201-212, 235-300, 331-348, 351-374, 431-450, 731-750, 1051-1058, 1063, 1068, 1191-1214, 1271-1285, 1301-1312;
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors

U's 77-82, 88, 90-92, 99, 100, 132-136, 401, 451, 452, 551-650, 751, 821-840, 929-936, 951-1050;
2 BBC (Brown Boveri & Co) GG UB 720/8 electric motors

U's 301-330, 375-400, 701-730, 752-782, 1131, 1132;
2 GL (Garbe, Lahmeyer) RP 137/c electric motors

U's 349, 350, 402-430, 453-458, 465-486, 651-698, 901-912, 921-928, 1101-1110, 1161-1170;
2 SSW (Siemens-Schuckert-Werke) GU 343/38-8 electric motors
Output totalled 750shp in all cases

Type VIId & f
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors totalling 750shp

Whether or not it makes a whole lot of difference I dont' know, but I am gonna mess around with this myself this weekend (no football on this weekend - english premiership)
Am also going to look at the displacements as a few of those seem to wrong. Well not wrong so to speak, they mostly seem to be dry weights, no water/fuel, unmanned and unloaded, see if those play any part.
I'll let you know of anything significant andycaccia.

[andycaccia]

Originally Posted by eon850aye

Sorry to be a stickler for historic specification, and sorry for kicking you repeatedly whilst down, but strictly speaking, this isn't true.
I was in the middle of moving house when SH5 was released & my typeVII bible (Anatomy of the Ship - The Type VII U-boat by David Westwood, taken from his Ph.D thesis on German U-boats from 1935-45) was packed away, dug it out this morning...
...it says

Type VIIa
2 BBC (Brown Boveri & Co) GG UB 720/8 electric motors totalling 750shp

Type VIIb
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors totalling 750shp

Type VIIc
U's 69-72, 89, 93-98, 201-212, 235-300, 331-348, 351-374, 431-450, 731-750, 1051-1058, 1063, 1068, 1191-1214, 1271-1285, 1301-1312;
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors

U's 77-82, 88, 90-92, 99, 100, 132-136, 401, 451, 452, 551-650, 751, 821-840, 929-936, 951-1050;
2 BBC (Brown Boveri & Co) GG UB 720/8 electric motors

U's 301-330, 375-400, 701-730, 752-782, 1131, 1132;
2 GL (Garbe, Lahmeyer) RP 137/c electric motors

U's 349, 350, 402-430, 453-458, 465-486, 651-698, 901-912, 921-928, 1101-1110, 1161-1170;
2 SSW (Siemens-Schuckert-Werke) GU 343/38-8 electric motors
Output totalled 750shp in all cases

Type VIId & f
2 AEG GU 460/8-276 electric motors totalling 750shp

Whether or not it makes a whole lot of difference I dont' know, but I am gonna mess around with this myself this weekend (no football on this weekend - english premiership)
Am also going to look at the displacements as a few of those seem to wrong. Well not wrong so to speak, they mostly seem to be dry weights, no water/fuel, unmanned and unloaded, see if those play any part.
I'll let you know of anything significant andycaccia.

I saw (almost) the same data on wikipedia, and I guess they're correct. Anyway, changing the power output in the .sim files doesn't affect gaming. I only used that value to make sure the boat would have the necessary thrust to compensate the increased rudder efficiency.

And I remind you that I was not looking for historical specifications, instead I was working to find a solution for the siniking effect. Data about mass and displacements were correct, but the submarines had unacceptable behaviour while submerged..so I had to make changes. Thank you for your help, tell me if you find some solution for this. Good luck

[eon850aye]

Originally Posted by andycaccia

And I remind you that I was not looking for historical specifications, instead I was working to find a solution for the siniking effect. Data about mass and displacements were correct, but the submarines had unacceptable behaviour while submerged..so I had to make changes. Thank you for your help, tell me if you find some solution for this. Good luck

Oh I know, sux big, not much point in ordering 190m if your either not going to make it that far or just dive straight through
Well just finished running comprehensive depth tests using the UHS_1.4 mod, down to 200m(7a,b,c) & 250m(7c/41) running at Ahead Slow & Flank speeds, and to my results the 7b is the best, although still shallow at both speeds, depths are maintained closest when running at flank, but thats no good when your trying to evade & escape a bunch of sub hungry destroyers.
I'll run the same tests again tomorrow using your suggested values, I'll also take a look at HanSolos Improved Waves, Pitch and Roll mod which also says its cures the maintaining depth problem, but I have yet to try it.
I'll pass on todays results to ddrgn, see if it matches up with his results, if he wants them & once I've typed them up.
Will let you as soon as.

[andycaccia]

Originally Posted by eon850aye

Oh I know, sux big, not much point in ordering 190m if your either not going to make it that far or just dive straight through
Well just finished running comprehensive depth tests using the UHS_1.4 mod, down to 200m(7a,b,c) & 250m(7c/41) running at Ahead Slow & Flank speeds, and to my results the 7b is the best, although still shallow at both speeds, depths are maintained closest when running at flank, but thats no good when your trying to evade & escape a bunch of sub hungry destroyers.
I'll run the same tests again tomorrow using your suggested values, I'll also take a look at HanSolos Improved Waves, Pitch and Roll mod which also says its cures the maintaining depth problem, but I have yet to try it.
I'll pass on todays results to ddrgn, see if it matches up with his results, if he wants them & once I've typed them up.
Will let you as soon as.

Keep on mind my friend that with my values you'll have very fast diving times and a really terrible submarine on rails effect in stormy seas. Depth keepig capabilities, instead, are very good on all tweaked models.

Cheers.

[longam]

Thats ok, I have a feeling someone is already on it.

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

please explain away

[andycaccia]

Ok, I have a beta version containig the VIIB VIIC and VIIC/41 .sim and . cfg files. It's JSGME ready. Now I must upload to subsim donwload section. Since I am a new Modder, I sent a pm to request access to the upload files function.

[longam]

Thank You Sir!

[Krauter]

Cheers matey

But please, explain how UHS does not, uh, 'fix' the problem for you? I haven't noticed any real problems with UHS and I love the way the boat sits in the water with that Mod.

But if you files fix the depth issue than by all means I will overwrite UHS with yours

[Akula4745]

Any word on how these changes affect other mods? I dunno about you gents... but I have a ton of mods running.

[andycaccia]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Cheers matey

But please, explain how UHS does not, uh, 'fix' the problem for you? I haven't noticed any real problems with UHS and I love the way the boat sits in the water with that Mod.

But if you files fix the depth issue than by all means I will overwrite UHS with yours

Hi Krauter, maybe I was wrong about your mod...I remember a fix found here some time ago... I have on my pc the U boat Historical Specification 1.4, so I guess it's your fix. I only felt that the subs had a strange behaviour with your mod enabled, which was in fact quite the opposite of the sinking effect you tried to fix. But pheraphs it's only me...

Simply I made another fix myself. I've changed nothing else. Moreover, I could not use the historical values (mass, displacement) because that would have worsened the problem.
With my settings the boats keep depth almost perfectly, but there are some side effcts (very fast diving times and very slow surfacing times if theb boat is not moving), so my mod is not perfect.

**beta version now available for donwload at subsim**

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=2779