Iran commisions 4 new subs

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

If they striped out the torpedo tubes, head, some of the computers- basically the whole forward compartment, they might.

This boat is so small you can not stand up inside, amazingly they cram around 6 guys in it.

its a good thing they dont know any suicide bombers who would want to do that

[nikimcbee]

Silly Steamwake, those aren't subs, they're called targets! You silly goose.

[nikimcbee]

A gold coin to the first submarine captain to sink one!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Should do well in the littoral zone.

My thoughts exactly. I would even say the small size is ideal for their needs. The Gulf is relatively shallow, and limited in size, so is the Hormuz Strait. And the small size also makes the boat less detectable to active sonar. Have you realised the small diameter, seen from front?

In a recent discussion, somebody wanted to convince me that small speedy boats cannot penetrate the defence belt of a US flotilla even when these are "flooding" the target area (and some days later I launched a thread that included the Millennium Challenge 2002 exercise disaster, where 15 Us ships and carriers were sunk by doing exactly this). By comments I must conclude, that these midget subs are getting underestimated as well by some guys. If it is not big, I mean: really big XXL style, than it cannot be good, or what?!

As the Kaleu in "Das Boot" commented on the young bigmouths in the bar getting drunk and yelling martial slogans: "Die werden auch noch ruhiger."

The Ghadirs probably are aiming more against tankers and merchants, and the local rivalling small navies of the Gulf states, than against American war vessels. What Iran wants to do is closing the Strait and denying much of the Gulf to international traffic. And I think they can easily do that without the US navy being able to do much about it: shutting down the Strait completely, and making everything that swims on their side of the Gulf a target.

[TLAM Strike]

Small size also poses a problem, the Ghadirs can't utilize a lot of the sound quieting systems used on larger subs in regards to it propulsion system.

Lets take an example we all know. Remember the Foxtrot, how noisy they were? The next generation submarine the Kilo was as quiet as its western equivalents but it was twice the size of the Foxtrot with less weapons and a modest increase in sensors. Why the increase in size? A new drive system with many quieting measures.

On active the return from such a sub will be small but on passive she will be easier to detect. She can hide but she can't run.

I agree with you Sky that these subs are more for the use against tankers than warships. Unless a US warship sails very close to extreme shallows like the Cheonan did it would be safe. (The subs that reportedly sank the Cheonan was of the same class as the Iranian Ghadirs).

[Skybird]

In how far the Iranian claim the Ghadirs are "stealth" is propaganda or not, I cannot judge obviously, but I know that one should not judge iranian engineering by standards which you get used to think by when referring to the high tech made in Arab states. The Persians are better, and they always were better in pragmatical technical things and education and intellectual challenges than the Arabs. The Ghadirs I do not expect to try hunting down american patrols - but in case of war I also do not expect american vessel straying into the guld or operatin gin waters that are the natural hunting ground of the Ghadirs. The Gulf is a missile shooting alley. So, the noise the Ghadir may (or may not) produce by its engine, may not be that important, if it's intended prey are tankers, and shipping routes it tries to mine.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

In how far the Iranian claim the Ghadirs are "stealth" is propaganda or not, I cannot judge obviously, but I know that one should not judge iranian engineering by standards which you get used to think by when referring to the high tech made in Arab states. The Persians are better, and they always were better in pragmatical technical things and education and intellectual challenges than the Arabs. The Ghadirs I do not expect to try hunting down american patrols - but in case of war I also do not expect american vessel straying into the guld or operatin gin waters that are the natural hunting ground of the Ghadirs. The Gulf is a missile shooting alley. So, the noise the Ghadir may (or may not) produce by its engine, may not be that important, if it's intended prey are tankers, and shipping routes it tries to mine.

Well the Ghaidrs and the new Patrol Boats they have been showing as great achievements of Iran are not Iranian, they are North Korean- disassembled and shipped to Iran where they are put back together.

Passive noise is a very large problem. Don't forget we can conduct our own mining operations with CAPTOR- which utilizes a passive sensor to detect its targets before attacking.