GM's 'Volt'...

[mookiemookie]

Unfortunately, big oil has their claws into us and it will take some serious pain and sacrifice to wean ourselves off of it. And I don't think this country has it in us. Craven and petty politicians will never take the first step to alternative energy.

For good or for ill, we remain whores to the oil industry. And most likely always will.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

For good or for ill, we remain whores to the oil industry. And most likely always will.

Until we find a cheaper or more abundant source of energy.

[yubba]

So why do we need to go to the moon to find water to make fuel ? ymmmmmmmmm

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by yubba

So why do we need to go to the moon to find water to make fuel ? ymmmmmmmmm

I know this was going to come back and bite me in the ass again. I wrote a half page on this two seconds ago on all of this and just lost it and I am really really pissed (as in angry to our British friends) right now. I am not going to write it again, but basically it is this: There is Silica on the moon. Silica can be used to make solar panels. There is water there to generate power until solar panels are built and to fuel ships to get people to and from.

Now the moon has no atmosphere (basically) so it gets massive amounts of sunlight meaning solar panels work great. Lasers can be used to transmit power back to the Earth (we do it all the time the other way around much to the ignorance of Apollo Program Denyer).

The Moon (Luna) = Massive Solar Power Station.

Now if you will excuse me I'm going out side to go look at Neptune and maybe calm down.

[yubba]

and to think of all the trouble , red tape, demonstrations,and well you get the picture to put up a couple of windmills here on earth ,thought we had sand here, what we also have the wrong kind of water here too.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by yubba

and to think of all the trouble , red tape, demonstrations,and well you get the picture to put up a couple of windmills here on earth ,thought we had sand here, what we also have the wrong kind of water here too.

No we have the wrong kind of sunlight. Our atmosphere blocks 30% of the sunlight we receive from reaching the Earth's surface. The atmosphere absorbs about 20% give or take. In other words a little over half the sunlight heading in our direction reaches the Earth's surface.

So a solar panel put just a mile strait up (in to space) generates 50% greater power. Ever see a house with a solar panel have its meter spin backwards?

Why build them on the Moon? Because the ingredients are there already and its easier to put them in Earth orbit from there! Just have to send a factory. Whats is even better than a factory? A robot factory that just builds them and sets them up all day long until the moon is covered with them.

Oh and solar panels last for about 40 years and are cheap to maintain.

[Zachstar]

I would not consider the water we have "Wrong" considering the other water is quite poisonous after a normal day's intake.

Beaming power from the moon is scifi It is FAR cheaper to do it from Geosync orbit where you have one transmitter and one receiving point. It is widely believed it will be one of the next "Big Rushes" From 2030 onwards due to likely development of launcher technology.

To the guy doing the HHO generator. Your car is a pre computer Carburetor version right? Any card with an oxygen sensor and computer will consider how "Clean" the output is an error and the correction will likely give you even less gas mileage than where you started. Just wanted to make sure you knew that because many "OMGzors! HHO is teh fake because my 2009 Civic now suXors with less gas miliage!" Fools really discredit the concept of water vapor injection to increase octane paired with hydrogen injection to promote complete combustion.

[SteamWake]

In an attempt to return to the topic.......



Has anyone actually seen a performance envelop for this car?

What is its top speed? What is its top speed with the battery depleted?

What is considered a 'cruising' speed? What is the acceleration when the battery is depleted.

I get the feeling that this car will be hugging the right hand lane if you get my meaning.

[AVGWarhawk]

Does it matter? What is this electric car or any electric car doing for us/planet anyway? Is the electric free of polluting the air? Well, no! Still burning fossil fuels (coal) to generate the electricity. Use nuclear? Sure, but what about spent rods/fuel? Send it underground? Water to generate electricity? Sure! Sounds great until the tree huggers show up concerned of the enviromental impact of the dam that will be created to generate the electricity. Is electric truly the way to go?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

In an attempt to return to the topic.......



Has anyone actually seen a performance envelop for this car?

What is its top speed? What is its top speed with the battery depleted?

What is considered a 'cruising' speed? What is the acceleration when the battery is depleted.

I get the feeling that this car will be hugging the right hand lane if you get my meaning.

I would imagine it would be similar to other gas electric hybrids.

It looks like a heavy car IMHO though i dont know what the curb weight is, i would imagine it would be similar to any other small to mid sized sedan based on looks alone.

Unfortunately, i dont think the day will come where there will be no use for oil. It is a necessity, and probably will be for another 50+ years.

Too many applications rely heavily on oil for fuel and lubrication. Even with electric vehicles, parts will be required to be lubricated and greased, some oil production will be required for this to take place.

one other thing nobody has mentioned is that oil will always be expensive no matter the demand.

here is what i hypothesize.

As demand decreases in the future due to the implementation of electric cars, solar power etc etc the number of producers of oil will also diminish.

this means that as the demand decreases, so will the price, quite steadily. Yet as demand continues its down trend... production will be forced to decrease. this raises the possibility that so few companies will be in the oil production and refining business... it will possibly become a "specialty" of sorts. thus increasing the price.

fortunately, as reliance on oil is also deeply reduced... it will be a cost we can afford as moving parts on vehicles aside from the engine require infrequent lubrication and fluid changes.

This is why i rip on cars like the volt. Though such hybrid electric vehicles are a step in the right direction, it would seem that the step is a little miscalculated or misguided.

Hybrid electric vehicles do extend fuel efficiency of a vehicle, but by how much? what is the life span of an electric or electric hybrid car? By what means do we dispose of the batteries when they are depleted or no longer any good? how much does that cost?

One thing the world needs to do is get on the same page with regards to oil dependency.

do we want to be completely oil free?

do we want to reduce oil consumption by 20%? 50%? or even 75%?

how much burden do we want to place on the average joe? (because i promise, if its going to cost Joe 2 years worth of income in taxes alone just to make the nation oil free... he probably wont go for that plan)

additionally, many nations around the world are not even remotely in a position to abandon oil and "upgrade" to another energy source... and those nations which produce oil wont have any incentive to back changes.

the higher that percentage of reduction goes and the more changes we make to oil dependency etc, the less viable hybrid vehicles become because they still use fossil fuels, they still use internal combustion engines, some of which require almost a gallon and a half of oil for engine lubrication alone, not to mention the oil used on fuel production.

I have said it before and i'll say it again... we need a 10-20 year plan for the implementation of readily available, stylish, desirable and useful all electric vehicles. tax incentives for those who purchase them. Rebates for the recycling of fossil fuel burning vehicles.

if we want to take steps to independence from oil... we need to take aggressive yet calculated steps, and i maintain that hybrids are just a temporary fix to high summer fuel prices and do not IMHO address the long term financial and environemental problems posed by oil dependency.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I would imagine it would be similar to other gas electric hybrids.

I dont think so. Typical hybrids the internal combustion engine is directly coupled to the drive. In the vold it is a generator that is coupled to an electric motor. Any 'excess' is diverted to the batterys for charging.

Big difference. Electric motors can draw up to and over 600% of their 'normal' current when being started. That huge inrush current can bring a generator to its knees.

But I was wondering if the performance data is available I would like to see it.

You know I would even consider buying one of these things if they could make it competitively priced... a 7.5 thousand tax break 'incintive' aint going to do it for me I am afraid.

Although @$41,000 I consider it too expensive I might consider a vehicle with a switch which allows me to run on gasoline until I run out and then go to the battery so I can find a gas station.

Just a thought.

[yubba]

take a peek at this and

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

how much burden do we want to place on the average joe? (because i promise, if its going to cost Joe 2 years worth of income in taxes alone just to make the nation oil free... he probably wont go for that plan)

I'm going to say a dirty word here: Deficit Spending. Because.........

additionally, many nations around the world are not even remotely in a position to abandon oil and "upgrade" to another energy source... and those nations which produce oil wont have any incentive to back changes.

If we suddonly produce massive amounts of an alternative source of energy we are in a position to sell that energy at lower prices than the oil producing nations sell their product to developing nations. Now we are the leader in the market and we are exporting rather than import our energy source then we slowly pay off the debit we accumulated.

In other words we take a hit in the wallet now to drive everyone else out of the market. Then pick up the pieces.

[mookiemookie]

The oil companies will fight any attempt to change, kicking and screaming. Their very existence is threatened by attempts to wean ourselves off of oil. They will throw every last dollar they have into lobbying if it means not just their continued existence, but their continued dominance and market position in energy industry. Do you think they'll stand idly by as they're made obsolete? Until we have politicians that are willing to forego those lobbying dollars and campaign contributions, nothing will happen to extract big oil's claws from us.