Defence departments love it: 92,000 documents on Afghanistan operations leaked

[mookiemookie]

If this release helps end this stupid war, then it will have saved more lives than any amount of guns or bombs ever would have.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

What if it identifies people who have been working for us to the Taliban and they are killed and/or tortured as a result? Would it still be a good thing then?

There are good reasons for assigning security classifications to information and i'm betting that somewhere in those 97 thousand documents there will be some information that will put some good people at risk. I don't trust the media one bit to choose what is safe to disseminate and what isn't.

Obviously many documents in there show that many non-combatants get killed while we debate this, and that this is kept secret, and that many operations by special operations teams fail too, again resulting in the killing of not the intended targets, but "others". Also the many reports from men fighting at the front seem to show that the situation is much, much worse than what the media and the govenrment try to make the people at home believe. I noted over the day that in the American media headlines, the aspect of the ISI massively supporting and directing the Taliban, and the existence of commandoes for tagetted assassination of hostile key figures, seem to get most attention - as if the reports are not showing anything else. But they cover as well the inadequzate equipment of the German bundeswehr and the deficits it suffers therefore. Der Spiegel also points at reports showing how very many of the remote control drones are malfunction and go lost in crashes, or troops trying to retrieve them get ambushed. There are so many very different aspects that get adressed, that each nation currently seem to focus its' media attention on only a small ammount of the overall ammount of information released here.

Also, it is was mentioned by the chief editors of the newspapers and Wikileaks as well, that critical information that could effect running operations or put lives at risk, get withhold from public release, or get blacked out.

Much more things go wrong in Afghanistan then what the media usually gets told and then reports, or what governments try to make us believe. And this material seems to be a huge truckload of first-hand information from those who know the situation better than most others: the men fighting this messy war at the frontline, on the basis of political lies, illusions and deceitful claims of their own government on why they get send there.

Note that I do not make much difference between Germans and Americans and British and Dutch and others here. All our governments have lost their senses over Afghanistan. and no matter their flags, all our soldiers over there need to spoon out the soup politicians at home have messed up.

[Skybird]

Acting on these new convictions, in the summer of 1971 Ellsberg leaked copies of the McNamara study to the New York Times and other prominent newspapers. Almost overnight the "Pentagon Papers," as the study was quickly dubbed, became a lead story in the media, and Ellsberg became a controversial national figure. As he later explained his motivations:

"I felt as an American citizen, a responsible citizen, I could no longer cooperate in concealing this information from the American people. I took this action on my own initiative, and I am prepared for all the consequences."

Those consequences included federal indictment on several counts under the Espionage Act for the possession and unauthorized release of classified documents.
The Pentagon Papers catapulted Ellsberg into a position of national prominence. For the antiwar movement, his conversion from ardent "hawk" to committed "dove" proved a powerful symbol. Ellsberg, for his part, warmly embraced the movement along with a series of other liberal causes. In 1972 he published a book, Papers on the War, that set forth his position on the Vietnam conflict. The following year the charges against him were dropped as a result of government misconduct. In the wake of the Pentagon Papers furor, the Nixon administration had launched its secret "plumbers" operation, so named because this team of trusted presidential aides was directed to stem any further "leaks" that might embarrass the government, as the Pentagon Papers had. Nixon aides burglarized the office of Ellsberg's psychiatrist in an effort to find information that would destroy his credibility, and employed similar criminal tactics in an attempt to tap the phones at the Democratic National Headquarters at the Watergate Hotel in the summer of 1972. The ramifications from this last act forced Nixon to resign 1974.

from:
http://www.bookrags.com/biography/daniel-ellsberg/

the same guy fears that the Us is planning a hit on the Wikileaks founder, since it is no secret that the government would love to shut down Wikileaks better yesterday than today, and that it is "exmained" how that could be acchieved. so far they preferred to focus on "legal actions", or hindering Wikileaks' access to thr world wide web. After this stunt now, one indeed cannot rule out that Wikileaks is considered to be too great a threat to government and party interests as if even an accident or a hit could be ruled out.

[Jimbuna]

This is causing quite a stir in the UK and tbh I'm not suprised.

Anyone any idea where the leak came from?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

This is causing quite a stir in the UK and tbh I'm not suprised.

If I recall correctly, the Yahoo News article I read last night said it was the same guy that leaked the video of Iraqi journalists being killed by the Apache crew.

EDIT - A former US military analyst. Not remembering his name ATM.

Can anyone verify this information? I'm not finding the article I read last night. :/

[CaptainHaplo]

You all are missing the point. There is really nothing "new" in this "news", but everyone wants to act like its something revealing. It's much ado about nothing in many ways.

Its more a way for some to stir up those with similiar views by manufacturing "secret information" that anyone should have known if they used their brain.

Does the government hide too much - of course. That's not news either.....

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Also, it is was mentioned by the chief editors of the newspapers and Wikileaks as well, that critical information that could effect running operations or put lives at risk, get withhold from public release, or get blacked out.

Yeah I read that too. My question is what makes a newspaper editor such an expert that he can make such determinations?

Also, what is their chain of custody like? Is it good enough to keep the withheld critical information out of the wrong hands? I'm betting it isn't.

[Wolfehunter]

Originally Posted by Skybird

the governments betraying their own people weighs much heavier. the leaking of this material I consider to be some kind of an ultima ratio in self-defence - becasue there is zero idnication that our governments are stopping to betray us: you, me, all others, and last but not least: the troops in the field, no matter the nationality.

As I see it, if ranking the enemies by importance and priorities, the greatest enemy of the troops fighting is their own governments, next it is the Pakistani and the ISI (preaching this since years, don't I), and then, maybe, finally, it is the Taliban.

Compared to this, the leaking of these documents is a minor crime. And why should our governments ever change their approach and their deception of the public, if the public can be successfully deceived by hiding such reports from it?

As somebody above put it: if this makes the governments more afraid of the people, then it is a good thing. I personally am sick and tieed of listening to government'S infantile stupid claims about what they plan and can do in Afghnaistan. It is so very disconnected from realities, and own troops are being told to risk their lives for this governmental crime.

to me, the crime of leaking secret stuff is put into relation if that deeds helps to enforce more realism and honesty from politicians. A politician will lie if it helps his interest - but only if he sees that he gets away with it. that's why free media are so important in a democracy, and that's why gagging media or limiting the protection of their sources is a direct assault on the very basics of free, democratic political and social order.

If those in power are allowed to hide too much from the people, freedom dies.

+1 I have to agree with sky. Your enemy is your government. There personal interest are for themselves and there friends. Unless your part of that system of there your worthless to them. Just trash.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

Unless your part of that system of there your worthless to them. Just trash.

Not entirely; someone has to keep the mills running.

[SteamWake]

The regime is not pleased...

The Obama administration on Monday called the release of thousands of classified documents on the Afghanistan war a "breach of federal law," as a prominent senator said the government needs to press charges in the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ul-amid-probe/

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by krashkart

If I recall correctly, the Yahoo News article I read last night said it was the same guy that leaked the video of Iraqi journalists being killed by the Apache crew.

EDIT - A former US military analyst. Not remembering his name ATM.

Ah, right...cheers

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

Well I hope they catch the guy who leaked this stuff. I take a dim view of the unauthorized dissemination of classified information. Somebody needs to go to jail for a long time.

Agreed. This is most underhanded. The media is not the media of 50 years ago. Integrity has given way to the almighty dollar. The outlet that can spill the most dirt, spill it the quickest, and give the highest justification to its 'base' is the one with the fattest coffers. It is simply that pointing the finger at the government is very fashionable nowadays. A year ago, it was corporations. Before that, it was the military. Tomorrow, it will be something else.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by August

Well I hope they catch the guy who leaked this stuff. I take a dim view of the unauthorized dissemination of classified information. Somebody needs to go to jail for a long time.

It's not often I agree with August. I don't know what was in the document's, and I don't care. No matter what those classified document's contain, they'll only be twisted around to further Media ratings, Jihadist agenda's, and put peoples lives in further danger. Whoever decided to do that is a scumbag, and the media moguls should know better then to risk national security over god damn ratings. Scumbags, all.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah I read that too. My question is what makes a newspaper editor such an expert that he can make such determinations?

What makes a poltiician or a committee member such an expert? Are you sure those having a word on hiding or releasing these things do so much better a job? I don't.

The expertise of an editor depends on the person and his background. Note that it were complete teams, not indovudual persons, and that they spend weeks on this task. also note that it were three different intenrational papers, not just one bean-counter in the back corner of some forgotten office. I assume they have not put their "local news" editors on it. However, blacking out names and faces and adresses should be something not so impossible to acchieve. however, I must wondering that when you are so distrustful to them, why you do not complain about the trust beytrayed by the government that runs the war and wants to keep the reality of it hidden. Do you really have any reason to be so sure that they do that much a better job with the responsibility they have? When I look at how Afghanistan and the ISAf mission detoriated over the past 7 years, I see no reason at all to put any trust in my or your government's handling of the war at all. Both stink, both ignore unwanted realities, both raise false promises about the future, and the other governments do like that as well. And these people's deeds you want to let go by unmonitored and uncontrolled, although their failure and betrayal cannot be hidden and they are costing the lives of your own and our own troops?? Listen to their public statements and conferences and promises - their words speak for themselves in order to illustrate how disconnected from reality they are. They need to be stopped.

Also, what is their chain of custody like? Is it good enough to keep the withheld critical information out of the wrong hands? I'm betting it isn't.

when judging the way the war has been handled for 7 years you may want to be more concerned about the lack of realism and expertise of both the Bush and the Obama governments and the way they "managed" the war, as well as the failure of the other nation'S governments driven by illusions as well. And if their competence to withhold any knowledge from the public (that the public depends on in order to form an educated opinion on the war), can compensate for that lacking sense of realism and expertise, is highly in doubt.

I do not knopw if in 2014 their realyl will be a major withdrawel. but I can tell you for sure that in 2014 the Afghan security apparatus still will not derseve that name and still will be as impotent as it is now and has been two years ago and has been three and four and five years ago, with the Pakistani not stopping the ways in which they run their game. Why should they if it runs so well for them.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

The regime is not pleased...



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ul-amid-probe/

They can whine and scream all they want. The only reason they caught the man who exposed the cowardly attack on the Reuters reporters is because he bragged in a chat. Wikileaks likely has it VERY clear now (Well unless they are stupid beyond belief) that when someone releases such info that exposes politicians for the dirty liars they are the person letting loose the info needs to be silent elseware.