Dangerous Waters Random Mission Generator

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I think it's a great idea. And I wouldn't be discouraged by having to manually enter some data. After all, right now if we want to do something like this it is 100% manual.

Thanks, I also think like you.

Quick question though... what can we expect from campaigns created like this? Right now it seems like it would be a campaign like we already have in DW--single player and consisting of scenarios strung together in a storyline. I'd love to find a way to generate DW missions as part of a multiplayer campaign without a scripted storyline. Is anything like that on your radar?

Mi intention about a campaign is like you say. No storyline, no scripting, just an introduction and missions created based on previous results and random.
It can be done for multiplayer without problems. Well, probably would be a little tricky, but nothing unbearable.

What I've though is this:
Let's think about two sides. Both of them start equal, 50%.
Of course when one side wins a battle, gains points and the loser loss points.
The sides are more or less aggressive depending on if they are winning or losing.
To make it "dynamic" I thought on creating a list of the most important platforms (cruisers, Naval bases, SSN and specially CVs and SSBN...). Destroying them makes them out of the campaign.
For doing so, once played the mission and restarted the campaign generator, we should go to "uncheck" the killed platform and so the program won't use it again.
The "lesser" platforms and civil shipping should be considered "expendable", so destroying them gives you points but the platform may appear again in the future.
Of course this is not magical. First one must decide the sides and the platforms involved and give that data to the program. But once done, it will be easier.

What kind of campaign are you thinking about? Let's make a little brainstorming

[Captain Sub]

I think it's a great idea,

do you think it would be possible to click anywhere on the map instea of being constrained to points?

Also it would be great if once an area is selected the computer would select randomly a mission out of a mission pool.

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Captain Sub

do you think it would be possible to click anywhere on the map instea of being constrained to points?

Too hard, but it can be "open" to areas. and make it more flexible. However, remains the problem of creating objetcs too close to land, where more precise missions are needed.
This random mission generator is somewhat like the quick mission generator, which is similar in concept: you choose the area amongst the ones prefixed.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

What I would really like to have in a dynamic campaign engine for DW is something that can keep an account of the platforms present in a campaign (and their status--loadout, fuel, damage, etc.), account for their movements that take place before/after a match is played, determines when/where a DW match is to take place, and can generate DW missions based on all of the information its been tracking. Something along the lines of the "2d world" in Falcon 4, if you're familiar with that. Or, imagine a server running Fleet Command, with Dangerous Waters players logging into it to control the playable platforms in the FC game.

Never played Falcon 4, but I liked very much EF2000 campaign (very old, I know). I suppose is something similar.
Status, loadout, fuel... too complex, at least for now. But the other things are what I was thinking about.
I will be hard to simulate an AI, but it can be done.

I expect that a full-blown professional campaign engine like F4's is beyond the limits of game-editor. But, if it can do most of the things I've listed above--even if a lot of the data is entered manually b/c it doesn't know how to interpret the results of a DW battle, it's still accomplishing a lot.

I have very little skill as programmer. I fear it will be far more simple, at least at the beginning. Many things should be entered manually, at least on the first steps to create the campaign (players, sides...).

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Isn't there a results file created when you end a mission. Could your generator read that and interpret the results?

yes, it's called debrief.txt
As far as I know, it will be possible to interact with it, but at the moment I don't know how. I'm afraid I must to keep with the manual solution.

BTW Definitely needs LWAMI compatibility with Pacific and Persian Gulf AOs...

Yeah, I really love LWAMI mod, but I have little time (in fact I shouldn't even be doing this on these days ). RA mod is what I have installed right now and, since there's not an easy way to install the last version, it will have to wait.

[Molon Labe]

What I would really like to have in a dynamic campaign engine for DW is something that can keep an account of the platforms present in a campaign (and their status--loadout, fuel, damage, etc.), account for their movements that take place before/after a match is played, determines when/where a DW match is to take place, and can generate DW missions based on all of the information its been tracking. Something along the lines of the "2d world" in Falcon 4, if you're familiar with that. Or, imagine a server running Fleet Command, with Dangerous Waters players logging into it to control the playable platforms in the FC game.

I expect that a full-blown professional campaign engine like F4's is beyond the limits of game-editor. But, if it can do most of the things I've listed above--even if a lot of the data is entered manually b/c it doesn't know how to interpret the results of a DW battle, it's still accomplishing a lot.

[TLAM Strike]

Isn't there a results file created when you end a mission. Could your generator read that and interpret the results?

BTW Definitely needs LWAMI compatibility with Pacific and Persian Gulf AOs...

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Isn't there a results file created when you end a mission. Could your generator read that and interpret the results?

BTW Definitely needs LWAMI compatibility with Pacific and Persian Gulf AOs...

Even if you could read the debrief file, a lot of times the information there is incorrect or missing. Plus there's no accounting of expended weapons/cms or damage.

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Even if you could read the debrief file, a lot of times the information there is incorrect or missing. Plus there's no accounting of expended weapons/cms or damage.

You're right, I just checked one mission with several goals and misses some of them...

I'm curious... expended weapons and countermeasures? how are you thinking to manage that?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

You're right, I just checked one mission with several goals and misses some of them...

I'm curious... expended weapons and countermeasures? how are you thinking to manage that?

Wow... the goals it's usually pretty good about. Usually, if a goal/trigger doesn't appear, it's because it wasn't in the simulation (e.g. it was part of a dynamic group and wasn't spawned). But the kills lists are often wrong, so you can't rely on the debrief to say what platforms survived (plus an AI can kill an AI platform and it won't get reported at all).

As for tracking expenditures, I don't know how to use game-editor, so I don't have a clue. It is important, though, and I'm frustrated with SCS because Jane's 688I had it (in campaign mode), but SC and DW don't.

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Wow... the goals it's usually pretty good about. Usually, if a goal/trigger doesn't appear, it's because it wasn't in the simulation (e.g. it was part of a dynamic group and wasn't spawned). But the kills lists are often wrong, so you can't rely on the debrief to say what platforms survived (plus an AI can kill an AI platform and it won't get reported at all).

Maybe so, just checked it once and don't remember what kind of goals where.

As for tracking expenditures, I don't know how to use game-editor, so I don't have a clue. It is important, though, and I'm frustrated with SCS because Jane's 688I had it (in campaign mode), but SC and DW don't.

I haven't played 688i
What I was asking for is how are you thinking it can be implemented in a campaign, to see if it's possible or not for me to do it.