RA mod/ Lawmi 3.10

[To be]

I'd encourage you to use both and see which suits you (or just use both in general). 'Realism' is hard to compare because all the real data on modern navies is a closely guarded secret - and there have been very few examples of modern naval combat. The RA mod is a bit more difficult to use because it changes weapon employment, etc but if you keep the manual at hand that shouldn't be hard to overcome, and it ultimately results in a richer experience. Weapons effectiveness varies greatly between the two mods. especially so called Lightweight torpedoes. In LWAMI, 1 LWT will sink almost any sub, whereas in RA some subs can require 3 or more hits to sink. So depending on which in your opinion is more realistic, that could likely determine your choice, if realism is key for you.

[Captain Sub]

I prefer realism over all else.

Most likely you're not gonna get it because reality is classified.

And modders who think they can create a realistic simulator by using public data available from sources such as wikipedia, TV or government are simply wrong.

[NFunky]

Then call it 'as realistic as we can know', in which case both mods are extremely good. Most of the gameplay (ahm, simulation) differences between the mods are speculative. Both have taken the game as far as the knowledge we have available and each has taken it beyond in one direction or another.

[To be]

Originally Posted by NFunky

Then call it 'as realistic as we can know', in which case both mods are extremely good. Most of the gameplay (ahm, simulation) differences between the mods are speculative. Both have taken the game as far as the knowledge we have available and each has taken it beyond in one direction or another.

I'd call it 'different interpretations of reality'. The differences between the mods are speculative, but almost everything is speculative because very little is public knowledge. I'd suggest reading the documentation and playing the mods to see which one you think better suits your definition of reality. They aren't terribly similar.

-RA- add-on there is no such description.
we were concentrated on fixed bugs, instead of on drawing up of these documents.
However - much can be found out on a forum Red Rodgers.

About wrong "noise maker model" from SCS, about wrong "Terminal_Home" (Stock Attack Phase function from SCS) -

[For example - the Missile always attacks not the target with the largest radar signature, and on LAST found out Target.
If located SuperTanker and the fishing boat at short range - missile will attack a fishing boat (Instead SuperTanker!) - fishing boat which small and which it is found out missile in last queue.]

etc.etc...

Long ago, Subsim forum was unfriendly to -RA- of add-on, which was forbidden for discussion. (DLL remake, correction NavalSimEngine and other executable files - not welcomed )
Therefore - the discussion was transferred on Red Rodgers.

PS: To speak: that all is speculative, you should be competent - to know, what to compare..

Originally Posted by To be

I'd encourage you to use both and see which suits you (or just use both in general). 'Realism' is hard to compare because all the real data on modern navies is a closely guarded secret - and there have been very few examples of modern naval combat. The RA mod is a bit more difficult to use because it changes weapon employment, etc but if you keep the manual at hand that shouldn't be hard to overcome, and it ultimately results in a richer experience. Weapons effectiveness varies greatly between the two mods. especially so called Lightweight torpedoes. In LWAMI, 1 LWT will sink almost any sub, whereas in RA some subs can require 3 or more hits to sink. So depending on which in your opinion is more realistic, that could likely determine your choice, if realism is key for you.

Russian submarine has from 7 up to 9 compartments (and double hull: that does explosion of a torpedo - only in 1.5-2 meters from the strong hull).
688 Improved - 3 compartments, and only stong hull.
How you think - flooding of one compartment (hit LWT torpedo) - what submarine will sink faster?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by -GrayOwl-

Russian submarine has from 7 up to 9 compartments (and double hull: that does explosion of a torpedo - only in 1.5-2 meters from the strong hull).
688 Improved - 3 compartments, and only stong hull.
How you think - flooding of one compartment (hit LWT torpedo) - what submarine will sink faster?

...is the wrong question. The right question is, could a particular sub class survive if its largest compartment (and maybe the compartment next to it) was flooded? And if yes, how much more would it take?

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

...is the wrong question. The right question is, could a particular sub class survive if its largest compartment (and maybe the compartment next to it) was flooded? And if yes, how much more would it take?

Sense in following - after hit by ONE LWT of a torpedo, some submarines can survive.

And some - can not survive.

It concerning a question of "realism"...

[To be]

Originally Posted by -GrayOwl-

Russian submarine has from 7 up to 9 compartments (and double hull: that does explosion of a torpedo - only in 1.5-2 meters from the strong hull).
688 Improved - 3 compartments, and only stong hull.
How you think - flooding of one compartment (hit LWT torpedo) - what submarine will sink faster?

Several Russian submarines are very reinforced, beyond what the US subs are, and that should be represented. While as with all questions of realism when we don't really know what is 'real' this is a matter of opinion but I'll share my own.

I do believe that certain submarines, e.g. Project 941 (Akula / Typhoon) could potentially survive hits by lightweight torpedos. However, I also would say that the entire purpose of the LWTs is to sink submarines. If they were incapable of doing so, they would not have been designed the way they were. An Mk 54 torp (randomly chose a LWT for the example) does 88 units of damage. A typhoon has 500 hit points. Do I think a typhoon could survive a hit, yes. But I don't think it can survive 5. Nor do I think it could take 1 and continue fighting unimpaired (as AI subs are not affected by damage).

The 688i, which as you mention is far less reinforced against torpedo attacks, has 150 armor. So it too can survive being hit with a torpedo designed entirely to kill submarines, and fight on.

The Kilo, a small SSK and arguably the design target of such lightweight torps has 90 hitpoints. It too can survive, albeit barely.

IMO the only subs that could potentially survive a LWT are very heavily reinforced SSBNs, such as the typhoon. I can't see a 688, Victor III, Kilo, or much anything else, for that matter, surviving.

[NFunky]

God damn it! I'm so sick and tired of the 'mod war' going on in these forums. I agree that RA is a great and innovative mod, but some of its bugs still really bother me. LWAMI on the other hand, while not bug free, is still very reliable. However, RA wins hands down as far as expansion of the game and adding new features and possibilities.

They are really COMPLETELY different mods. LWAMI is a doctrime/database/graphics mod only whereas RA/DWX is more what I'd call a TC (total conversion) in which the game is almost remade. I love both mods for different reasons and I do agree those reasons should be discussed, but I cannot stand this almost hostile and sometimes bombastic tone.

How about we make this thread a discussion on the differences between the mods, not a 'size' comparison (you know what I mean)?

[NFunky]

Sorry guys, that was maybe a little overboard and not really called for. I stand by my point, but actually MOST of the people here are being quite civil, I just didn't want to point fingers.

[Dr.Sid]

Btw. how exactly damage model in DW works ? Does it take into account where the sub was hit ? Is there some random amount of damage ? What numbers controls it ?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Btw. how exactly damage model in DW works ? Does it take into account where the sub was hit ? Is there some random amount of damage ? What numbers controls it ?

Subs have set hit points, weapons have set damage points. When the Hit Points are reduced to 0 or more the platform is destroyed. There is no randomness to it.

[Dr.Sid]

What about damage and flooding ? I mean .. if someone can survive a hit, how it is going to affect him ? If he is crippled, slow and noisy, with possibly non working weapons, one or two fish make little difference.