Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[CaptainHaplo]

There comes a time in any armed conflict, when people make choices...

They can remain civilians, or participate in the conflict by using violence.

Those that chose violence become - under the rules of war, combatants, and as such are treated like combatants.

These "protestors" were heading into a conflict zone.
They repeatedly ignored warnings to avoid the zone.
When confronted, they chose to initiate violence on behalf of an enemy of the state of Israel - making them combatants, and thus valid and legal targets to be killed.

Their choices, their actions, their responsibility.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

There comes a time in any armed conflict, when people make choices...

They can remain civilians, or participate in the conflict by using violence.

Those that chose violence become - under the rules of war, combatants, and as such are treated like combatants.

These "protestors" were heading into a conflict zone.
They repeatedly ignored warnings to avoid the zone.
When confronted, they chose to initiate violence on behalf of an enemy of the state of Israel - making them combatants, and thus valid and legal targets to be killed.

Their choices, their actions, their responsibility.

You should have seen the few hundred useful idiots protesting here. Maybe hamas needs to launch some rockets at portland, then lets see the pro-hamas protests.

I say we arm both sides, winner gets the region, everybody else STFU and go do something else.

I say we arm both sides, winner gets the region, everybody else STFU and go do something else.

Someone else famously took the let them fight for it approach many years ago, since then his country has poured billions of dollars into the mess and they are still no nearer to a sorting out a winner from the pile of losers in the region.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Someone else famously took the let them fight for it approach many years ago, since then his country has poured billions of dollars into the mess and they are still no nearer to a sorting out a winner from the pile of losers in the region.

If there would be a real unristricted war in the region there would be one clear winner, Israel
Western democracies havent fought like that after WW2 and Israel is one.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

You should have seen the few hundred useful idiots protesting here. Maybe hamas needs to launch some rockets at portland, then lets see the pro-hamas protests.

I say we arm both sides, winner gets the region, everybody else STFU and go do something else.

So thousands and thousands gets to die before a "Winner" gets to rule? Sickening....

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

So thousands and thousands gets to die before a "Winner" gets to rule? Sickening....

Any more sickening than killing thousands and thousands without end?

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by August

Any more sickening than killing thousands and thousands without end?

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

While i agree with you 100% i do have to say...

Wind energy is not the answer.

Look at Abilene, Texas Wind turbines EVERYWHERE and 90% of the time only a hand full of them are turning. Its unsightly, and they dont produce nearly as much power as advertised.

Hydrogen is probably not the answer.

too volatile?

Nuclear power is not the answer for obvious reasons.

i mean we could list hundreds of viable options and write a friggin manuscript filled with things wrong with each one of them

I think that you have to move toward cars like the Aptera - the SOB can go a couple of hundred miles at highway speeds before it requires a recharge.

for me... thats about 4 days of work related commuting.

the thing about progress Zach - is that it is generally slower than frozen molasses flowing up a hill.

and our RETARD government could have started a NEW ERA if they had only injected that stimulus money into a car company like Aptera instead of blowing it on GM

[CaptainHaplo]

Zachstar - so now they don't have to follow just the law - you are saying they must now have to find "proof" of other wrongdoing (whereas the violating of the legal blockade intent wasn't enough) - and because they haven't produced WMD's then the law doesn't apply? Dude - the law is the law - it doesn't require them to be RIGHT in suspecting contraband. If you want to make this a moving target then they could find a freakin dirty bomb and you'd just move the target again - maybe it wasn't armed or ticking first? Cmon....

Its only a bloody nose for Israel to those that want it to be. To those who don't want it to be - it won't be. And for those that want to make their own mind up - well - the video makes it real clear who the aggressor was - and it wasn't the IDF....

Yes. But this impact is artificially magnified

True, but it isn't the whole story is it.

In reality, there should be no question on the issue itself

In reality there are always questions, in this specific case there are lots and lots of questions.

The fronts should be clear:

Should they? Both sides repeatedly do very stupid and often very nasty stuff. when all sides are at fault there is no clarity on the fronts as each issue has its own merits and should be dealt with as such. Failure to do so slips into that interchangeable Israel/arabs good/bad nonsense.

You have a democracy in the midst of totalitarian regimes

Yes, but how democratic is the state when it repeatedly breaks its own laws and ignores its own supreme court. Actually in this instance as members of the Israeli cabinet were complaining that the military had acted without the needed government approval it does weaken the democracy line doesn't it.

There is no "Israeli" problem in the Middle East. There is a problem with Anti-Semitism.

There is an Israeli problem, there is an anti-semitism problem and there are a whole pile of other problem in the issue too.

Uhm. Like in *NUCLEAR WEAPONS*?

So take Canada as a random example, what impact on the Canadian population or industry does India and Pakistans nukes have?

No, that's the *****ng point I'm trying to make

I know, but I am saying that is far too narrow a focus for a very complex and wide ranging issue.

The idea that every adult in the western world is somehow "massively affected" by this incident is so totally ludicrous on its face its hilarious.

Haplo is having severe problems with the english language

Zachstar - you might want to reread the relevant law - thank TLAM for posting it....

Ignorance is bliss again. The san remo issue has already been dealt with in the same way as your earlier attempts at irrelevant and outdated maritime laws
If in doubt about trying to apply that "relevant law" just look for the statement the group TLAM linked to made, they use the words illegal and unjustifiable to describe this Israeli action.

If there would be a real unristricted war in the region there would be one clear winner, Israel

If there was real unrestricted war in the region there wouldn't be any winner.

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

Ever since Lebanon the Israeli government and military has between them time and again chosen to be Israels own worst enemy.

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

Oil?, well maybe indirectly but you might as well blame oil to the retreat of western civilization if you want to generalize the issue that much.

Xenophobia is a far more direct culprit.

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

Try saying that if you were born a Palestinian. Nobody chooses to what country they belong to.

If your country just wants to add Gaza to its territory then say so explicitly. I'll like your country even more because it's honest on its intentions.

But punishing civilians is an act of cowardice and gets Israel no points.
And not all Palestinians are participating actively or passively to destroy Israel or wants to harm its people. Most civilians are helpless people just wanting to get by and have a peaceful life. They don't choose where they are born into and they don't have access to be granted other nationalities either. And despite the way Israeli govt may treat them they are as humane as any other Israelis.

The Nazis thought Jews were despicable too and did their best to get rid of them. I despise Nazis because they failed to see Jewish people or any other group of people as being as humane as them.

Sure the Israeli commandos were attacked abroad the ships they landed on but they had the rights to do that as it was done IN international waters and translated to piracy. That was not exercising the state sovereignty. Did Israel first declare that 65 km off the coast of Gaza as a no shipping zone?

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

There comes a time in any armed conflict, when people make choices...

They can remain civilians, or participate in the conflict by using violence.

Those that chose violence become - under the rules of war, combatants, and as such are treated like combatants.

These "protestors" were heading into a conflict zone.
They repeatedly ignored warnings to avoid the zone.
When confronted, they chose to initiate violence on behalf of an enemy of the state of Israel - making them combatants, and thus valid and legal targets to be killed.

Their choices, their actions, their responsibility.

Repelling boarders does not make them valid targets. Especially in international waters. Also opening fire from the helos means they can claim defense.

Again fancy lines and labels isn't going to help Israel on this. They frakked up and are going to pay the political price for it. Gaza now is open through egypt which likely is much less inclined to inspect cargo going in and out. Israel looks like a bully AGAIN which is weakening their position and lessening chances of foreign assistance in case of a major attack. They are giving far too much political ammo to Hamas and other groups that are against their very existence.

Israel has egg on its face. Today it was forced to get rid off all it captured less face a serious international political crisis soon it will be forced to lift the blockade on Gaza. Many more today now hate their guts. They just cant keep doing this! It will sink them!