Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

So thousands and thousands gets to die before a "Winner" gets to rule? Sickening....

Any more sickening than killing thousands and thousands without end?

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by August

Any more sickening than killing thousands and thousands without end?

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

While i agree with you 100% i do have to say...

Wind energy is not the answer.

Look at Abilene, Texas Wind turbines EVERYWHERE and 90% of the time only a hand full of them are turning. Its unsightly, and they dont produce nearly as much power as advertised.

Hydrogen is probably not the answer.

too volatile?

Nuclear power is not the answer for obvious reasons.

i mean we could list hundreds of viable options and write a friggin manuscript filled with things wrong with each one of them

I think that you have to move toward cars like the Aptera - the SOB can go a couple of hundred miles at highway speeds before it requires a recharge.

for me... thats about 4 days of work related commuting.

the thing about progress Zach - is that it is generally slower than frozen molasses flowing up a hill.

and our RETARD government could have started a NEW ERA if they had only injected that stimulus money into a car company like Aptera instead of blowing it on GM

[CaptainHaplo]

Zachstar - so now they don't have to follow just the law - you are saying they must now have to find "proof" of other wrongdoing (whereas the violating of the legal blockade intent wasn't enough) - and because they haven't produced WMD's then the law doesn't apply? Dude - the law is the law - it doesn't require them to be RIGHT in suspecting contraband. If you want to make this a moving target then they could find a freakin dirty bomb and you'd just move the target again - maybe it wasn't armed or ticking first? Cmon....

Its only a bloody nose for Israel to those that want it to be. To those who don't want it to be - it won't be. And for those that want to make their own mind up - well - the video makes it real clear who the aggressor was - and it wasn't the IDF....

Yes. But this impact is artificially magnified

True, but it isn't the whole story is it.

In reality, there should be no question on the issue itself

In reality there are always questions, in this specific case there are lots and lots of questions.

The fronts should be clear:

Should they? Both sides repeatedly do very stupid and often very nasty stuff. when all sides are at fault there is no clarity on the fronts as each issue has its own merits and should be dealt with as such. Failure to do so slips into that interchangeable Israel/arabs good/bad nonsense.

You have a democracy in the midst of totalitarian regimes

Yes, but how democratic is the state when it repeatedly breaks its own laws and ignores its own supreme court. Actually in this instance as members of the Israeli cabinet were complaining that the military had acted without the needed government approval it does weaken the democracy line doesn't it.

There is no "Israeli" problem in the Middle East. There is a problem with Anti-Semitism.

There is an Israeli problem, there is an anti-semitism problem and there are a whole pile of other problem in the issue too.

Uhm. Like in *NUCLEAR WEAPONS*?

So take Canada as a random example, what impact on the Canadian population or industry does India and Pakistans nukes have?

No, that's the *****ng point I'm trying to make

I know, but I am saying that is far too narrow a focus for a very complex and wide ranging issue.

The idea that every adult in the western world is somehow "massively affected" by this incident is so totally ludicrous on its face its hilarious.

Haplo is having severe problems with the english language

Zachstar - you might want to reread the relevant law - thank TLAM for posting it....

Ignorance is bliss again. The san remo issue has already been dealt with in the same way as your earlier attempts at irrelevant and outdated maritime laws
If in doubt about trying to apply that "relevant law" just look for the statement the group TLAM linked to made, they use the words illegal and unjustifiable to describe this Israeli action.

If there would be a real unristricted war in the region there would be one clear winner, Israel

If there was real unrestricted war in the region there wouldn't be any winner.

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

Ever since Lebanon the Israeli government and military has between them time and again chosen to be Israels own worst enemy.

[CaptainHaplo]

Dimitirius - keep your head high. The IDF did nothing wrong - regardless of what the haters have to say. Oh - and before it happens - let me apologize in advance for whatever stupid and asinine response the current administration will have at the end of this that leaves Israel out to hang (figuratively speaking only) - since they have shown a marked pattern of doing so to date. Just remember that when it happens - you still have the support of most of America - and most of America can't wait till a different president is in office.

Of course - there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the european powers - but ... oh well ROFL!

Happy Times nailed it - stand with pride my friend. We will remain your friends as well - don't forget that!

If Israel allowed this ship to pass uninspected who said there wouldn't be weapons on next one
Look at this:

So you have a Cypriot registered ship destined for Cyprus from Iran that is stopped by a US ship in the red sea under the terms of a UN embargo against Iran and a bi-lateral agreement between Cyprus and America. The people doing the stop and search have to allow the ship to proceed to its destination under escort as they have neither the power to detain it or to sieze the materials it believes are covered by the embargo.
At its destinattion the cypriot customs inspect the ship and decide that some of the material being shipped contravene the embargo so reports to the UN that weapons related material is being illegally exported to Syria by Iran and asks what to do as it cannot send it back to Iran and cannot forward it to Syria.
Slightly complicated but all nice and legal.

And that relates to an illegal action by the Isreali navy carried out in international waters without even Israeli government approval against a humanitarian aid shipment in what way?

Dimitirius - keep your head high. The IDF did nothing wrong

Yes apart from acting illegally, without government approval, making a balls of it and damaging their country they really did nothing wrong.

Oh - and before it happens - let me apologize in advance for whatever stupid and asinine response the current administration will have at the end of this that leaves Israel out to hang (figuratively speaking only) - since they have shown a marked pattern of doing so to date. Just remember that when it happens - you still have the support of most of America - and most of America can't wait till a different president is in office.

It makes you wonder how when even the head of Mossad is telling the Knesset that Israel is becoming a liability for America some people just give blind support no matter what the facts of the issue are.

[eskachig]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So you have a Cypriot registered ship destined for Cyprus from Iran that is stopped by a US ship in the red sea under the terms of a UN embargo against Iran and a bi-lateral agreement between Cyprus and America. The people doing the stop and search have to allow the ship to proceed to its destination under escort as they have neither the power to detain it or to sieze the materials it believes are covered by the embargo.

At its destinattion the cypriot customs inspect the ship and decide that some of the material being shipped contravene the embargo so reports to the UN that weapons related material is being illegally exported to Syria by Iran and asks what to do as it cannot send it back to Iran and cannot forward it to Syria.

Slightly complicated but all nice and legal.

Embargo and blockade are not the same thing, and the mechanism you outline makes the tactic of a naval blockade completely pointless.

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Oil is what is keeping it going. If we got off our lazy buts and found an alternative it would remove a great deal of funds from those who do kill the thousands.

Oil?, well maybe indirectly but you might as well blame oil to the retreat of western civilization if you want to generalize the issue that much.

Xenophobia is a far more direct culprit.

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

[August]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

You're sure right about that.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

You should be proud in living in a truly sovereign nation with a goverment that actually puts its own citizens interests first, rare in todays western world.

Post of the day award.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Maximum criticism minimum arguments......boring . Not so effective method, i think its put my head up and not down in fact.

Try saying that if you were born a Palestinian. Nobody chooses to what country they belong to.

If your country just wants to add Gaza to its territory then say so explicitly. I'll like your country even more because it's honest on its intentions.

But punishing civilians is an act of cowardice and gets Israel no points.
And not all Palestinians are participating actively or passively to destroy Israel or wants to harm its people. Most civilians are helpless people just wanting to get by and have a peaceful life. They don't choose where they are born into and they don't have access to be granted other nationalities either. And despite the way Israeli govt may treat them they are as humane as any other Israelis.

The Nazis thought Jews were despicable too and did their best to get rid of them. I despise Nazis because they failed to see Jewish people or any other group of people as being as humane as them.

Sure the Israeli commandos were attacked abroad the ships they landed on but they had the rights to do that as it was done IN international waters and translated to piracy. That was not exercising the state sovereignty. Did Israel first declare that 65 km off the coast of Gaza as a no shipping zone?

Originally Posted by Castout

Try saying that if you were born a Palestinian. Nobody chooses to what country they belong to.

If your country just wants to add Gaza to its territory then say so explicitly. I'll like your country even more because it's honest on its intentions.

But punishing civilians is an act of cowardice and gets Israel no points.
And not all Palestinians are participating actively or passively to destroy Israel or wants to harm its people. Most civilians are helpless people just wanting to get by and have a peaceful life. They don't choose where they are born into and they don't have access to be granted other nationalities either. And despite the way Israeli govt may treat them they are as humane as any other Israelis.

The Nazis thought Jews were despicable too and did their best to get rid of them. I despise Nazis because they failed to see Jewish people or any other group of people as being as humane as them.

Sure the Israeli commandos were attacked abroad the ships they landed on but they had the rights to do that as it was done IN international waters and translated to piracy. That was not exercising the state sovereignty. Did Israel first declare that 65 km off the coast of Gaza as a no shipping zone?

Don`t you get tired of this sometimes? In what way exactly do you want me to treat people who don`t work (working man have no time to hate) and live under my taxes, and for a nice payback they send a rocket party?
O wait.... you just have to mention Nazis, its a must . In fact i find a deep connection between nazis and your post. Zero arguments

I'll like your country even more because it's honest on its intentions

And "honest" means those who swallow your pile of twisted lies? I can say the same about almost any nationalistic politic party.. They are all so pure and honest.