Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by eskachig

I have never, ever, seen a naval boarding team from any nations arrive in riot gear. I'm not even sure there is a variant suitable for navy warfare. Anyway, they did come with some non-lethal options apparently, but the situation outgrew them.

The point is that you don't treat a boat full of protester ****s as a battle action. These weren't Somali pirates armed with machine guns and Rpgs or insurgents using hit and run guerilla tactics.

This was just an average rioting mob you'll find outside a stadium or vehemently protesting in the town squares. That's why you have to employ a police force which is trained to deal with such situations in a non lethal way! All the people who say that the commandos just responded to the attacking mob don't know the difference between a prroper war zone and a degenerated riot. Or never were inside one, either as a protester or a policeman.

I never saw soldiers succesfully employed in mob control roles. "Sunday, bloody sunday" isn't just a song, you know.

Using a military force was probably a deliberate attemp to cause a bloodbath to scare other people against trying such stunts again in the future. Too bad it backfired on the Israeli government.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

If the commandoes didn't want to put themselves on harms way they should've stayed out of a ship sailing in international waters. They were lucky they were only attacked with non-lethal force and not lethal which would have been ok too.

How is stabbing someone in the back non-lethal force?

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

How is stabbing someone in the back non-lethal force?

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

[Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

This is the version of Israelis. The folks who were on ship they had white flags weaving.

Perhaps time to read from unbiased sources?


I would trust on the Israeli version. They already screw up their reputation after forging passports in Dubai. (what happened to those so-called "investigations" by the way?)

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/1...i_armed_attack

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

What if you are being attacked by the authorities for doing something illegal?

just hypothetical question

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

Maybe so, but would you call that non-lethal force? Stay on topic!!

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

What if you are being attacked by the authorities for doing something illegal?

just hypothetical question

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Maybe so, but would you call that non-lethal force? Stay on topic!!

Well at that point you'd be having a major head ache due to the fact that you'd have a Finnish puukko up it's hilt lodged in your face. But not necessarily in your brain though so you'd be very much alive. Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

[tater]

Originally Posted by msxyz

The point is that you don't treat a boat full of protester ****s as a battle action. These weren't Somali pirates armed with machine guns and Rpgs or insurgents using hit and run guerilla tactics.

They didn't, or they'd have boarded with real weapons or would have simply fired across the bow, then fired on the boat if it didn't stop.

When the USCG pulls alongside and tells you to heave to, you $%#%! heave to and accept the boarders nicely.

"Protesters" would have staged a sit-in when boarded, they'd not attack the boarders. What they did was no different than those idiots in Waco Texas shooting at the FBI. You can argue that the FBI should not have been there, or not showed up with guns, but the reality is that when they DID show up with guns, you should behave nicely, then take them to court.

This is no different. You can argue that they should not have been boarded, but when they were boarded, the proper response would be to behave nicely, and then try and paint the boarders as illegal. The second you attack—sticks, clubs, knives, whatever, you have in fact asked for an armed response.

They attacked because they WANTED TO BE SHOT AT.

Really, they got exactly what they wanted.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

no.

let me make it easier for you...

If the police came to your house - or better yet - lets say if the police pulled you over and suspected that your vehicle contained drugs and drug paraphernalia - what would your natural reaction be?

A. Speed off into a high speed pursuit

B. Cooperate fully - knowing the officer will see that your little baggies of cocaine are actually little baggies of sugar and let you go

C. Stab, hit, bite, kick the officers



dont put a spin on it... just answer the hypothetical question its simple even!

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.



Well at that point you'd be having a major head ache due to the fact that you'd have a Finnish puukko up it's hilt lodged in your face. But not necessarily in your brain though so you'd be very much alive. Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

I hate to tell you this, but just because someone might only be wounded in an attack doesn't make it NOT deadly force. If you're using a weapon that can kill someone... whether it's a gun, knife, even a bludgeon, it's deadly force even if the effect or intent was only to wound.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

There is our little peace loving OTH coming out in his true colors

[tater]

GR, great question. Make it a little more clear. You have done nothing wrong, and you know it. The police pull you over BY MISTAKE. Then how do you act?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

What they were carrying is irrelevant. They refused to sail to the Israeli port like other aid ships do and they continued sailing straight to Gaza after IDF had warned them to change course.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I hate to tell you this, but just because someone might only be wounded in an attack doesn't make it NOT deadly force. If you're using a weapon that can kill someone... whether it's a gun, knife, even a bludgeon, it's deadly force even if the effect or intent was only to wound.

Oh I know how to use a puukko in a way it won't kill you. And by hiring 'Johnny Cochrane' I'd get my view heard in the court.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by tater

GR, great question. Make it a little more clear. You have done nothing wrong, and you know it. The police pull you over BY MISTAKE. Then how do you act?

Well, rule number one: Civility goes a LOOOOOOONG way with police officers, MPs and other authority figures (just ask Jimbuna)

I would pull over into a well lighted and populated area, and assuming it was dark, illuminate all of the interior lights of the vehicle, place both hands on the steering wheel and follow all of the instructions given by the officer(s).

at which point it would slowly but surely be discovered that im not the droids they're looking for