Valhalla Rising (what was that all about) Movie review!

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

1: Did they end up where they ended up or was it a kind of Valhalla Hell. Some reviews say its hell others say its the new land others say its one-eyes version of hell??
2: Who is the main actor suppose to be a viking demon? some Mystic warrior who can't die?
3. What the hell was the ending all about!

Haven't seen the movie, but I do know quite some things about Viking culture/history and thus may be able to help you out on some of your questions.

1 - The "Viking-hell", simply called "hel", is the place where all people who die of old age or disease go. It's not a bad place to go to, not at all, but it just doesn't have the luxury Valhalla has. Norse mythology doesn't have a hell like the Christians did.
2 - There are no "warriors that can't die" in Norse mythology. Even the gods are mortal (and most will die during Ragnarök actually). The fact that you call him one-eye does make me wonder if he could be Ódinn, as he's one-eyed himself (he stabbed his other eye to gain knowledge of past, present and future).

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Haven't seen the movie, but I do know quite some things about Viking culture/history and thus may be able to help you out on some of your questions.

1 - The "Viking-hell", simply called "hel", is the place where all people who die of old age or disease go. It's not a bad place to go to, not at all, but it just doesn't have the luxury Valhalla has. Norse mythology doesn't have a hell like the Christians did.

[Spoiler] The place they went to is the new land as there were Indians but its kind of fools you into thinking is it the new land or was it some type of hell he brought the Christians into? As he resented the Christians cause they curse him for what he was your see why in one brutal part of the movie. He doesn't kill these guys though they die one by one of their own fault.

2 - There are no "warriors that can't die" in Norse mythology. Even the gods are mortal (and most will die during Ragnarök actually). The fact that you call him one-eye does make me wonder if he could be Ódinn, as he's one-eyed himself (he stabbed his other eye to gain knowledge of past, present and future).

You could be right, Hes Odin? The ending something happens to him but then it switches to him walking into the river - you dont know if he died or what.

thanks that helped

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

[Spoiler] The place they went to is the new land as there were Indians but its kind of fools you into thinking is it the new land or was it some type of hell he brought the Christians into? As he resented the Christians cause they curse him for what he was your see why in one brutal part of the movie. He doesn't kill these guys though they die one by one of their own fault.

Well, judging from the description you give it isn't Hel (the Norse hell). At least not if they follow Norse mythology.
Judging from the pictures and the descriptions you give, it seems like a cold barren foggy landscape. It might be Niflheimr. Niflheimr is the world where Hel is located, so that would make sense.
Alternatively, it might be Jötunheimr. This is not as likely though, as Jötunheimr was the home of the giants (Jötunn) and you don't mention anything about giants.

You could be right, Hes Odin?

Possibly. It seems like a good movie to me if it leaves questions like these open. I generally like it that way.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Judging from the pictures and the descriptions you give, it seems like a cold barren foggy landscape. It might be Niflheimr. Niflheimr is the world where Hel is located, so that would make sense.

Possibly. It seems like a good movie to me if it leaves questions like these open. I generally like it that way.

I think you hit the nail on the head, during one part they spend days in the boat lost and nothing but fog they dont know where they are then they end up out of the fog and there's new land in the distance.

Yeah its a good movie just a little confusing but great scenery, some brutal parts as he was captured by other (vikings or christian warriors? as they keep telling him hes a curse to mankind) and they used him like a gladiator - fights for a living but he doesn't make a cent out of it. He escapes after a brutal killing of the leader then meets up with the Scottish Christians and thats when it gets confusing.

[Lord_magerius]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

[Spoiler] The place they went to is the new land as there were Indians but its kind of fools you into thinking is it the new land or was it some type of hell he brought the Christians into? As he resented the Christians cause they curse him for what he was your see why in one brutal part of the movie. He doesn't kill these guys though they die one by one of their own fault.

Could possibly be Vinland (North america) as mentioned in the greenland saga. I won't go on and on about it as I'm too drunk. But the first expedition was lead by Thorfinn Karlsfeni (I think that's how you spell it) but failed, a second expedition was organised about 5 or 6 years later by Thorfinn's brother Thorvald. I'll stop myself now

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Lord_magerius

[...] as I'm too drunk.

you too?
Guess drunk metalheads and Norse mythology/history go perfectly well together

Originally Posted by razark

Hel was the resting place for those who died peacefully, and not a place of punishment.

That's what I said If you die peacefully you die of old age or disease, as the only other cause for death is violence.

[razark]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

The "Viking-hell", simply called "hel", is the place where all people who die of old age or disease go. It's not a bad place to go to, not at all, but it just doesn't have the luxury Valhalla has. Norse mythology doesn't have a hell like the Christians did.

Hel was the resting place for those who died peacefully, and not a place of punishment. It has been reported to contain a section for certain people, though.

Originally Posted by "Seeress's Prophecy", Larrington translation

A hall she saw standing far from the sun,
on Corpse-strand; its doors look north;
drops of poison fall in through the roof-vents,
the hall is woven of serpents' spines.

There she saw wading in turbid streams
men who swore false oaths and murderers,
and those who seduced the close confidantes of other men;
there Nidhogg sucks the bodies of the dead-
a wolf tears the corpses of men...

That sounds a bit more like the Christian Hell to me.

[Lord_magerius]

Originally Posted by razark

Hel was the resting place for those who died peacefully, and not a place of punishment. It has been reported to contain a section for certain people, though.


That sounds a bit more like the Christian Hell to me.

I'll not turn this into a religious debate and ruin the thread, but most of christianity can find its roots in the old beliefs of many different cultures.

And I shall definately have to check this film out

[razark]

Originally Posted by Lord_magerius

I'll not turn this into a religious debate and ruin the thread, but most of christianity can find its roots in the old beliefs of many different cultures.

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Guess drunk metalheads and Norse mythology/history go perfectly well together

Depends. Are you drinking mead? Bonus points if it's being drunk out of a horn.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by razark

Hel was the resting place for those who died peacefully, and not a place of punishment.

Originally Posted by razark

That sounds a bit more like the Christian Hell to me.

You know the Christian bible(including new testament and what Paul taught) teaches (no it's not interpretation subjective) that the dead descend to the world of the dead or what the Jews called Sheol or what Jesus sometimes called the kingdom of death.

It's a resting place for the dead and not a place for punishment. Hell or heaven are only bound after the coming judgment and resurrection on Christ second coming and the end of days.

Sadly, ill knowledge of teaching lead to the abuse of translation that made no differentiation between the world of the dead and hell. Contemporary bibles make no such differentiation.

But ANY scholar of the bible would admit that the bible teaches that the dead are not risen immediately and must spend some time away resting in the world of the dead hence the inscription of the words Rest in peace on tombstones.

The condition which happens to the dead in the world of the dead is as follows:

The dead no longer aware of themselves, no longer remember God and not able to register the passage of time. The closest man's concept that could describe it best is sleeping though it's not exactly sleeping as it's perpetual death instead.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Castout

You know the Christian bible teaches (no it's not interpretation subjective) that the dead descend to the world of the dead or what the Jews called Sheol or what Jesus sometimes called the kingdom of death.

It's a resting place for the dead and not a place for punishment. Hell or heaven are only bound after the coming judgment and resurrection on Christ second coming and the end of days.

So, Norse mythology: The dead go immediately to Hel, the final location, for eternity*.

Christian mythology: The dead go to temporary storage, and then go to their final resting place, Hell (or Heaven), for eternity.

Ok, that's fine.

Corpse-strand (place of eternal punishment for evil souls) still sounds more like the Christian Hell (place of eternal punishment for evil souls) than the Norse Hel (place of eternal rest for souls that aren't so bad, but not worthy of going to the halls of the gods).

Christian souls just have one more stop on the bus route to the afterlife.

*Eternity, or until called up as draftees for Ragnarok.

[Castout]

Well some characters in the bible held the view that because of the end of days is still a long time coming they used the word eternity for their descend into death.

You see judgment and resurrection are the things only prophets speak of and know about.

Thanks for the information. I found it fascinating to be informed of different cultures holding a relatively the same idea of death(that death brings no punishment nor reward at least not immediately though that's irrelevant to the dead because they're unable to register time). There's a traditional tribe here that holds the exact(fascinatingly similar) same belief on the dead as the Jews with their sheol.

I'm saddened that the mainstream Christianity has lost the original teaching on death and resurrection and now subscribe to a GREEK version of afterlife. There's a giant gulf between being mortal and immortal.

[Wolfehunter]

Sounds interesting.. I'm going to have to see it. Thankya.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by razark

So, Norse mythology: The dead go immediately to Hel, the final location, for eternity*.
[...]
*Eternity, or until called up as draftees for Ragnarok.

Which is not for eternity. A hell of a long time (no pun intended), surely, but not eternally. After Ragnarök, I guess they're just dead. The accounts don't say much about it.

You could say that in Norse mythology, you'll stay in the afterlife for a long time, and after that probably are just "gone" for eternity, while in the Christian afterlife, if I understand Castout correctly, you'll stay in a afterlife for a long time, and after that you'll stay in another afterlife for eternity.

Originally Posted by razark

Depends. Are you drinking mead? Bonus points if it's being drunk out of a horn.

nope

[Castout]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

You could say that in Norse mythology, you'll stay in the afterlife for a long time, and after that probably are just "gone" for eternity, while in the Christian afterlife, if I understand Castout correctly, you'll stay in a afterlife for a long time, and after that you'll stay in another afterlife for eternity.

nope

Yea you got me right but

that feeling of a long time is only affecting the living as the dead are unable to register time so I can say for sure that even a zillion billion years WILL NOT be felt as anything long AT ALL

This is terrific btw. A brilliant solution. But nobody would rejoice at descending to death. Living is all about autonomy about awareness and about the blessings that we receive and give from and to other people. To have that autonomy and awareness taken away is shocking and depressing actually. Add to the fact that there's no remembrance of God either. This will come as a tragedy for the people who already knew God in their life. But while they would cease to remember God, God doesn't forget anyone. After all the world of the dead is also His domain as is heaven, earth and hell. He is still with everyone even those who have been forgotten by men and with time.

Live free live true and be happy(rejoice) living is an INCREDIBLE time . After all what we are really given is time and time only. We do not take anything at all when we die except our deeds.