More than Mexicans crossing the border (Maybe AZ has the right idea)

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

And where are you going to find an American willing to do this type of work? In my neighbourhood all I see are "help wanted signs" and businesses can't find anyone willing to do entry level/ labour work.

You think any of The Frau's kids will be willing to, gasp, work for a living? . A few years ago, I literally could not pay a kid in our neighbourhood to mow a lawn. Kids in my neighbourhood don't want to work.

So these immigrants may be taking jobs, but I wager they are taking jobs American's don't want to do.

I don't see too many American's lining up to pick carrots these days.

I have no appreciation or respect for this point of view.

If a person is destitute... they WILL do any job you put in front of them

you act like there are no Americans willing to do any of this work, when i know flat out that what you are saying is BS.

I know personally several men who will install plumbing, drywall, roofing, do minor electrical work, dig ditches - the list goes on - problem is these mexicans come in and get 5 of their brothers and cousins on the job and get it done in an hour and charge $100 flat... then they split it 5 ways and they can afford to eat for the remainder of the day.

If the jobs were available, and they needed filling... you would have workers.

The primary reason you have a sense of entitlement in this country is because your government wants you to need it desperately... we have too many effing entitlement programs and welfare BS.

do you think that single mother or that single dad or that family with 5 kids would continue to sit on their asses if the government cheese stopped oozing into their mailboxes every month????

they would HAVE to go out and work - like a human being is supposed to do in this world

pull your own weight... im done pulling it for these people

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I know personally several men who will install plumbing, drywall, roofing, do minor electrical work, dig ditches - the list goes on - problem is these mexicans come in and get 5 of their brothers and cousins on the job and get it done in an hour and charge $100 flat...

You know, i spent 7 years in the military as an engineer, trained as "Structural Specialist". That encompasses sheetmetal fabrication, weilding, masonry, concrete, and carpentry. What i know best is wall framing, sheetrock, mudding and taping, floor tile, drop ceilings, stuff like that. Mainly industrial construction (don't do alot of residential in the service).

Great job skills to fall back on, (in theory) and i wouldn't mind doing it. Infact, some of it I ENJOY and miss doing, and the sense of job satisfaction it brings. But i also know its pointless because nobody would hire me to do that work over an "migrant worker", and even if i were, i'd only be offered "migrant worker's" wages.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

You know, i spent 7 years in the military as an engineer, trained as "Structural Specialist". That encompasses sheetmetal fabrication, weilding, masonry, concrete, and carpentry. What i know best is wall framing, sheetrock, mudding and taping, floor tile, drop ceilings, stuff like that. Mainly industrial construction (don't do alot of residential in the service).

Great job skills to fall back on, (in theory) and i wouldn't mind doing it. Infact, some of it I ENJOY and miss doing, and the sense of job satisfaction it brings. But i also know its pointless because nobody would hire me to do that work over an "migrant worker", and even if i were, i'd only be offered "migrant worker's" wages.

Yes those jobs that americans wont do now... like hanging sheet rock.

[GoldenRivet]

All i can say is that i shoveled my fair share of sh*t and dug my fair share of ditches.

its not a job specifically reserved for mexicans like the Democrats would have you think... Leftist racism aside, I think you might be surprised how many people would be willing to do that work if it werent dominated by borderline slave labor.

we have a minimum wage... there are individuals and companies out there who exploit illegal immigrants so they dont have to pay minimum wage.

lets go after these exploiters and boost the GDP at the same time by deporting these illegals.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

lets go after these exploiters and boost the GDP at the same time by deporting these illegals.

Now that is something I think we can all agree on.

The government (state and Federal) needs to be going after the US businesses that hire undocumented aliens and start throwing them in jail. Enough of these piddly fines. Make it so that US companies won't want to hire illegals.

Right now, there is still an advantage for US companies to hire illegals -- profit. The fines may be considered simply a "cost of doing business". Let's start putting the CEOs/owners in the slammer and then see if their attitude changes.

In other words, lets enforce the already existing immigration laws before we start making new ones.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

But i also know its pointless because nobody would hire me to do that work over an "migrant worker", and even if i were, i'd only be offered "migrant worker's" wages.

HELLO....??? Anybody in there?...That's the whole point....wages have been driven so low ...dry up that supply of slave labor and them farmers or whomever will have to pony up and pay fairer wages....or go out of business and be swallowed up by other compnaies such is the way of a free economic society....wages would increase....here's another thing ....is Mexico that ****ty that no one wants to live there or can earn a living...seems to me the smarter thing would be to help them dorks stand up on theyre feet better and raise theyre own standard of living so maybe I would want to move there... wow what an idea.?

[tater]

I'm 100% behind jailing business owners/officers who hire illegals.

We still need to lock the border down, 100% (or as close to 100% as is humanly possible, including ANY MEANS to do so). Why? Because there are States like my stupid state (that you endless democrat control of the roundhouse) that give illegals official documents like DLs. In AZ right now, you can show a DL as proof of ID, even assuming you meet the tough standard of in effect probable cause that you are illegal. Show your NM DL, and you're fine.

BTW, there has been a rash of ID theft here in ABQ by illegals using the addys to obtain a DL with a false address. Since they can get a DL with their real address, and suffer no consequences, this means it's only for nefarious purposes, or perhaps for illegals out of state to have a legal US ID.

1. Lock the borders down, even with shoot to kill if that is what it takes.

2. ARREST employers that hire illegals, and massively fine the business. The goal here should be to set the fines such that if all employers of illegals were caught at once, it would 100% offset the total cost to the government of illegals (going back to the 80s, perhaps). HUGE fines. Might mean the business is liquidated and sold to raise the fine. Needs to scare employers enough to instantly have them all fire all illegals. Call it many 10s of thousands of $ per illegal caught in your employ, maybe 100s of thousands.

3. Set up a new immigration system with more (MANY more, again, I like mexicans, they work hard, I don't care how many come, I just want them to fill out a form first and be checked) mexicans allowed legally. The only place to get in line is IN MEXICO. Illegals here need to LEAVE, then reenter. Have the form in english ONLY, and have a language test for all applicants. Scoring higher puts you to the head of the line. New system includes guest workers, those can have lower english requirements.

[CaptainHaplo]

Tater - don't forget that we need to also deny Illegals welfare/social aid.

[tater]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Tater - don't forget that we need to also deny Illegals welfare/social aid.

True, that goes without saying for me. Note that I don;t think it is possible or practical to refuse medical care. If they show up in the ER, however, they should be stabilized, and in the course of deciding how they will pay (lol) if they are illegal, they get deported (by medivac if need be—I said "stable," not completely better ).

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

you act like there are no Americans willing to do any of this work, when i know flat out that what you are saying is BS.

First lesson: Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion does not make it BS. Why can't you have a simple discussion with different viewpoints with out the emotions?

I can only report what I observe in my neighbourhood. That is why I did not make any blanket statements about all Americans. The observed fact is that our local businesses can't find Americans to apply for these jobs as they seem to think these jobs are "beneath" them. The reason I know this is because I talk to them and I interact with them in my volunteer work.

If American's are willing to hustle in your neighbourhood, that's great. You live in a good area for that. But your observations do not invalidate my observations.

[CaptainHaplo]

Platypus - your ignoring one major factor in GR's comment that is not in place....

The stopping of government handouts.

Sure, as long as someone can sit on welfare and get food and shelter - why should they work? Right now - the results you see in your neighborhood is exaclty because of this. Stop the government breast feeding - and you will have plenty of employees.

Ducimus - yes - you have a valid point - but if the work was there - and more AMERICANS were employed - more work would be there - so without the migrant workers - and the migrant worker pay being shipped to mexico - but instead being spent in the US - you get a beneficial cycle. More people buying more widgets, homes, cars, whatever, and thus more employees are needed. Wait - they won't work for peanuts - damn - corporations suddenly have no workers - they up their wages - Ducimus gets a decent wage - everyone wins. Sure - its not perfect and isn't going to always work that way - but let me ask you - is it not better than where we are today?