HOTAS in a subsim

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

"Kaleun, please what are your orders?" Kaleun: "hang on, hang-on! I'm typing them in as we speak. Now where's the damm keycard?!"

For Starters... you dont type in your orders. It is generally as easy as clicking a single icon or pressing a single key.

With HOTAS you are little more than a helmsman steering the boat.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

A HOTAS, keyboard, mouse and what have you are just means of controlling the game (yes, however realistic, it's still a game). To me HOTAS is a very convenient means of controlling just about any game: because of the huge progammabilty of these things. I actualy have a profile for SH3 for my X52 Pro.

You are entitled to that opinion... but be aware that probably 98% of Subsim players out there favor the chain of command system involved in giving orders, and seeing them carried out... for the vast majority it is not about driving the boat.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

How's this for realism, on my x52 pro I have six toggle switches wich you can toggle up/down. I use one for the attack scope, one for the OBS. Push the switch up, the scope goes and vica versa.

Just as simple... ant takes less desk space to press the default Pageup page down or the insert and delete keys. what it boils down to is whether or not the player wants the tactile sensation of pressing a switch or a button.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

Besides that, what realy got me to thinking this might be a good idea is that there's a bunch of HOTAS sets comming out with dual throttles. Wich you can use for dual telegraphs. How many post are there on this site, saying how great it would be to have individual control over the engines? I haven't counted them, but willing to bet there's more than one.

there are hundreds of such posts... however - because many subsim enthusiasts and franchise fans are hardcore realism types or historical accuracy types they favor the idea if "giving an order" instead of running back to the engine room to personally take control of the engine throttle levers located on the after part of the diesels.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

All the dev's gotta do is make SH5 recognize axis. you the player got to do the programming on the HOTAS of your choice, if you choose to use it in the first place.

i dont think thats too much to ask... however i think it would turn out to be a feature that something like less than 1% of all players would ever use.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

Track IR makes even more sense to me. Imagine looking around in the control room, leaning over the read gauges.

we agree for the most part on TrackIR - i have used it extensively in flight sims... but i must be honest... i viewed it as more or a novelty than a requirment for serious play... the trackIR system is within arms reach if i wish to use it, but after the first month of owning it... it was just not that fun any more. Would be interesting in a subsim i think. however, since SHV is geared toward the first person shooter type of player movements, i think more PC Gamers would be within their element to use the mouse to look around.

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

not being able to see any use for a HOTAS (or other controller devices) and/or Track IR, seems to me a lack of imagination. And aren't good subcommanders, or any leaders for that matter, supposed to be able to think creativly and (way) out of the box?

a bold statement... i see your point, but i wouldnt have said those words specifically... I think it is important to understand that every Kaleun has a unique approach to the way he likes to manage his boat and crew and tactical situation. "to each his own." are the words you need to try to live by here at subsim.com - if a keyboard and mouse works perfectly fine for 90% of the users here... and it is an arrangment that they are used to - it would be tactically, militarily, and personally foolish to change the arrangement to something unfamiliar to virtually the entire fan base.

If Ubisoft Devs wish to Include HOTAS, or TrackIR... thats great.

but knowing that many of the fans of the series are comfortable with the keyboard and mouse setup i think it would be a little used feature.

[Donkey-Shot]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I think part of the aversion to such a system is the point made that the captain of a ship really doesn't do anything except be the captain. Many people complained that they couldn't control the dive planes in SH2, and when they were given that control multiplay went all to pieces. The subs were swooping up to periscope depth with a precision only found in aircraft, firing their torpedoes and diving again before the escorts even knew what was happening.

No, captains didn't have keyboards either, but the keyboard doesn't let you control the sub - only give orders. My objection wouldn't be to the manner of control, but to having too much control in and of itself.

I understand your point Sailor Steve. But you're asuming that everybody who buys it is a hardcore subsimmer that would pull up his nose at anything that might be considered a cheat or unrealistic. I love high realism, but I'm also a higly pragmatic person. I don't want to waste time pressing long keypress combination or a half dozen mouse clicks to get something done.

My request would simply be this: make SH5 recognize axis.
Besides, you can't program it to something that isn't in the game.
If there is no keyboardcommand to control the dive planes, you can't program any HOTAS axis to control it.

But I see no objection of having the -option- to use it.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

I understand your point Sailor Steve. But you're asuming that everybody who buys it is a hardcore subsimmer that would pull up his nose at anything that might be considered a cheat or unrealistic. I love high realism, but I'm also a higly pragmatic person. I don't want to waste time pressing long keypress combination or a half dozen mouse clicks to get something done.

My request would simply be this: make SH5 recognize axis.
Besides, you can't program it to something that isn't in the game.
If there is no keyboardcommand to control the dive planes, you can't program any HOTAS axis to control it.

But I see no objection of having the -option- to use it.

i think most here would agree with this post.

i also think many here would agree that you... and perhaps half a dozen other people would get any use of it.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i think most here would agree with this post.

As do I. If it's a simple thing to program I'm all for every possible option. If it's difficult then I say things like I did in my previous post.

[Kavok]

It would be great to have [even optional] manual helm controls rigged for this. I have a Saitek X-52 HOTAS for Wing Commander games and would love an excuse to use it in SH:V.

However, it may not be neccessary. All HOTASs (I would imagine all advanced joysticks, like advanced mice) are thoroughly programmable even to the level of haiving the various axes spilttable into ranges to press certain buttons. So you'll always get a minimum applicability even with no support at all.

The X-52 HOTAS (not sure about others) has a thumb-mouse and full controls for that on the throttle too. So in effect proper support would simply be using that mouse and condensing your keyboard controls onto the HOTAS system. Either way, it would be ace to have it.

As Donkeyshot says, the power of X-52 pro and X-52 HOTAS are so good that only a minimum level of game-side support are needed.

Ah, I just noticed the date of the first post.... sorry for the thread necromancy.

[commandosolo2009]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

No reason to be nasty.

Truthfully, I don't really see joystick control as applicable here. The captain himself does not control the engines, dive planes, tank valves, et al. Rather, he gives the order, and it is followed.

modern subs are controlled by stick.

Proof:

http://ussnewmexico.net/inside-look/

[ETR3(SS)]

The captain still doesn't drive the boat. The new Virginia's are going to a joystick control if I remember right. The rest of the boats in the US have a yoke stick for control surfaces control.

But what you really want is the "Dive and Drive" trainer on every Subase in the US. Those are fun!

[Sailor Steve]

Also, what does a modern helmsman's job have to do with World War 2 subs?

[Los]

Not sure if this will give you the result you are looking for... but it's a program to convert joystick movements into keyboard commands.

Search for joy2key

I use it for my RockBand drums to work with a drum sequencer on my computer. Should work (somewhat limited) for SH5

[longam]

It might be interesting if they came up with a controller for running the sub like the train controllers that are out.

[SabreHawk]

I dont think a HOTAS flihgtsim type controller would be very useful, but a shipsim type like this certainly would.
http://www.shipsim.com/products/ship+control+unit.php

But the sim itself would also have to support it.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

modern subs are controlled by stick.

Proof:

http://ussnewmexico.net/inside-look/

I know that. Still, any submarine simulator is, ultimately, a command simulator. I know that ETR beat be to it, but to reiterate, the CO does not drive the boat.