Japanese Supersub???!!!

[Rockin Robbins]

It's very interesting that there are two links in the cover page of Subsim referring to a Japanese "supersub" that supposedly could have won the war: 'Japanese SuperSub' explores how submarine could have altered course of WWII and Secrets of the Dead: Japanese SuperSub.

These submarines were the largest submarines in the world at that time, assuming the baggage of very slow dive times and larger, more noisy machinery associated with size at the time. Each submarine had an on-deck hangar capable of carrying three (count 'em!) Aichi M6A1 "Seiran" (Mountain Haze) float torpedo planes. So zero bombers, zero fighters just 3 float planes apiece.

So besides wasting the 100 or so men on board, the resources invested in the machinery and the fuel necessary to propel it to its doom, in what way might this admittedly fascinating machine have influenced the outcome of the war in any manner?

Keep in mind that in comparison, a single Essex class carrier bore about 100 planes, fighters, torpedo planes and dive bombers.

Seems to me our "science" channels are full of junk science and "history" channels are full of fables. Don't they have SOME responsibility to the truth? This sucker is on PBS, financed by dollars extracted from our pockets by force. We have no voice in what manner of nonsense they broadcast but are compelled to pay for it.

[Catfish]

- the plan was to bomb the Panama canal, or better its locks.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Weiss Pinguin]

Meh, everyone throws out 'Could've won the war' when talking about newly discovered plans for a particular weapon, or some other 'coulda/shoulda/woulda' project. Seems to me that kind of thinking would very quickly lose a war for someone.

[Raptor1]

So, they're talking about the I-400, right?

EDIT: Yes, they are. A curious design, but certainly nothing that could change the course of the war...

[Oberon]

Ironic, I was just reading that...quite far-fetched and grasping at straws really if you ask me. I do take exception as well to the ' the World War II "Secrets of the Dead" episodes that will air the following two Wednesdays - Winston Churchill attacking his French allies to make a point about his toughness'

Presuming that this refers to Mers-el-kebir, then it had a bit more reasoning behind it than making a point about Churchills toughness.

[krashkart]

Oh, that show airs tonight. I shall watch with much gleefulness and soak up everything that nutritious television has to offer me.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Oh, that show airs tonight. I shall watch with much gleefulness and soak up everything that nutritious television has to offer me.

And then throw it out of the window in rage at the stupidity of the world?

[tater]

I agree, nothing more than hyperbole. Bomb the locks? LOL, it would have been fixed quickly. The IJN could have sunk all 3 CVs at Midway, AND taken the island, would have delayed the war by a few months at best. Japan had zero chance of winning the war, even if they themselves thought they had a 10% chance of winning right before they started it—and this required a negotiated peace. Negotiation was required before the new naval construction in the US started coming off the slipways in 1943. PH made any such negotiation moot, it would not happen. Japan loses.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by tater

I agree, nothing more than hyperbole. Bomb the locks? LOL, it would have been fixed quickly. The IJN could have sunk all 3 CVs at Midway, AND taken the island, would have delayed the war by a few months at best. Japan had zero chance of winning the war, even if they themselves thought they had a 10% chance of winning right before they started it—and this required a negotiated peace. Negotiation was required before the new naval construction in the US started coming off the slipways in 1943. PH made any such negotiation moot, it would not happen. Japan loses.

Yeah, I can buy that.....they were hoping to hang on to some of the raw material rich territory they had conquered through a negotiated peace from a position of strength (as they saw/envisaged it).

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes sir. I was all about raw materials plus the fact everyone else was doing the land grab! The I-400 would not have turned the outcome of the war.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes sir. I was all about raw materials plus the fact everyone else was doing the land grab! The I-400 would not have turned the outcome of the war.

I doubt it would have even scratched the surface.

Might just as well say Surcouf would have done similar for the French.

[TheSatyr]

I dunno...a bombing raid with biological weapons on a West Coast city would have shocked the US nearly as much as Pearl Harbor did. Even if only 3 planes were involved.

Never underestimate the psychological and political effects of WMDs. Would it have won the war? Of course not. But,it might have caused problems politically for Truman.

[Raptor1]

Small scale WMD usage (As I pointed out in the numerous discussions about Germany winning the war) does not have the same effect on a victorious population as it does on a defeated population; if anything, it would've made the American public even more willing to defeat Japan.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

I dunno...a bombing raid with biological weapons on a West Coast city would have shocked the US nearly as much as Pearl Harbor did. Even if only 3 planes were involved.

Never underestimate the psychological and political effects of WMDs. Would it have won the war? Of course not. But,it might have caused problems politically for Truman.

The Japanese tried the bombings but using balloons. I believe some of these balloons did make landfall on the west coast of the US.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The Japanese tried the bombings but using balloons. I believe some of these balloons did make landfall on the west coast of the US.

Japanese Fire balloons (as told by wikipedia)

Japan released the first of these bomb-bearing balloons on November 3, 1944. They were found in Alaska, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Michigan and Iowa, as well as Mexico and Canada.

General Kusaba's men launched over 9,000 balloons throughout the course of the project. The Japanese expected 10% (around 900) of them to reach America, which is also what is currently believed by researchers. About 300 balloon bombs were found or observed in America. It remains likely that more balloon bombs lie unexploded in the forests, deserts, lakes and mountains of North America.

And the only known casualties caused by the fire balloons:

On May 5, 1945, a pregnant woman and five children were killed when they discovered a balloon bomb that had landed in the forest of Gearhart Mountain in southern Oregon. Pastor Archie Mitchell and his pregnant wife Elsye drove up to Gearhart Mountain with five of their Sunday school students (aged 11-14)to have a picnic, and Elsye and the children got out of the car while Archie drove on to find a parking spot. As Elsye and the children looked for a good picnic spot, they saw a strange balloon lying on the ground. As the group approached the balloon, a bomb attached to it exploded and Elsye and all five children were killed. Archie witnessed the explosion and immediately ran to the scene and used his hands to extinguish the fire on his wife's and the children's clothing, but he could not save them. [7] They are the only known deaths on the continental U.S. as the result of enemy action during WWII. They are also the only known deaths caused by the balloon bombs.