A SH too far?

[Stormbringer]

Originally Posted by mobucks

i understand and agree completely however, untill the day comes where you can't open up your browser and within 3 pages download any game you want, DRM schemes are only going to get worse.

DRM will only get worse if people buckle under to it and pay money for software with draconian DRM schemes.

If Ubisoft issued this new DRM scheme and nobody bought their new software with it enabled, the message of our dissatisfaction would be very clear. Quite frankly, everyone who bought an Ubisoft product after this DRM scheme went into affect, is part of the problem.

I'm absolutely sure that wasn't their intention, their interest was to play the various games from Ubisoft. They were willing to concede a little liberty for a little eye candy. Or perhaps they never thought of it in terms of privacy. However, the end effect is to support this DRM methodology and to send a message of positive acceptance, not only to Ubisoft, but to all other developers as well.

In essence, they've green flagged this scheme and others like it, for all developers. People might even look forward to office suites and other productivity software imposing a similar scheme in the future, simply because this test bed worked for Ubisoft.

If people had thought it over first and voted with their wallet, it would have stopped here and Ubisoft would have been forced to drop this intrusive system.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

DRM will only get worse if people buckle under to it and pay money for software with draconian DRM schemes.

If Ubisoft issued this new DRM scheme and nobody bought their new software with it enabled, the message of our dissatisfaction would be very clear. Quite frankly, everyone who bought an Ubisoft product after this DRM scheme went into affect, is part of the problem.

I'm absolutely sure that wasn't their intention, their interest was to play the various games from Ubisoft. They were willing to concede a little liberty for a little eye candy. Or perhaps they never thought of it in terms of privacy. However, the end effect is to support this DRM methodology and to send a message of positive acceptance, not only to Ubisoft, but to all other developers as well.

In essence, they've green flagged this scheme and others like it, for all developers. People might even look forward to office suites and other productivity software imposing a similar scheme in the future, simply because this test bed worked for Ubisoft.

If people had thought it over first and voted with their wallet, it would have stopped here and Ubisoft would have been forced to drop this intrusive system.

Oh, boo hoo, call me a scab all you want. Your problems with DRM are yours. Don't expect me to care.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

DRM will only get worse if people buckle under to it and pay money for software with draconian DRM schemes.

If Ubisoft issued this new DRM scheme and nobody bought their new software with it enabled, the message of our dissatisfaction would be very clear. Quite frankly, everyone who bought an Ubisoft product after this DRM scheme went into affect, is part of the problem.

I'm absolutely sure that wasn't their intention, their interest was to play the various games from Ubisoft. They were willing to concede a little liberty for a little eye candy. Or perhaps they never thought of it in terms of privacy. However, the end effect is to support this DRM methodology and to send a message of positive acceptance, not only to Ubisoft, but to all other developers as well.

In essence, they've green flagged this scheme and others like it, for all developers. People might even look forward to office suites and other productivity software imposing a similar scheme in the future, simply because this test bed worked for Ubisoft.

If people had thought it over first and voted with their wallet, it would have stopped here and Ubisoft would have been forced to drop this intrusive system.

Here's the irony. If the game was still selling at full price then (based on what I'd read here) I wouldn't have bought it. Because the anti DRM crowd wrote bad review after bad review the game got marked down and the asking price became lower and lower on Amazon, until I thought it worth the risk.

In the end I bought it because of the anti DRM crowd, so thanks guys

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

DRM will only get worse if people buckle under to it and pay money for software with draconian DRM schemes.

The continuation of a DRM scheme depends on it's success and cost-effectiveness, not the success of the software it's tied to.

Some time ago, games began to receive limited installs as a DRM measure; Spore is an excellent example. Public outcry followed, but did people stop buying these games? No, they didn't (some, maybe). Did the strategy survive? No, it didn't.

Following your logic, either no one bought games with that DRM, or every game today has it. Neither is true.

[JMV]

Thanks God, I don't have a powerfull enough computer to play SH5, so I don't regret anything.

I find this DRM thing is against our privacy and freedom. It's a violence done to us custommers. Just like ads on the TV that you have to swallow willy nilly every 10 mn or so.
Even if I could play it, I would not buy it. But, would it not have been for this DRM thing, I would have bought the game, even only just in case I can offer myself a computer in 30 years.

UBI has to know what we custommers want, because utltimately we decide, not vice verca. We don't have to bend to their rules, and a bit of discipline and wit from those that don't like DRM as a principle would be a clear remainder to them. You don't want your freedom or privacy altered, or an unfinished product : have a responsible behavior. Unite and send a clear message to UBI, because at the end we buy or don't buy their stuff. Period.

Plus it's not to the modders to spend 3 years finishing the job they havent done, just because they're greedy. If I buy a game, I don't want an unpolished job, and I don't want to wait 3 years...

[JMV]

To Bothersome Post #20 :"Anyone who would give up a little liberty to gain security, deserve no security nor liberty."
Post #25 : "But Ubisoft wants the modding community to fix their product while Ubisoft makes all the money."

To TwistedFemur Post #13 :"We shoudnt need the modders to fix a game. what a racket, release a half finished, broken game and let the unpaid community modders finish it while getting $60 per disk. the A.G. should slap these highwaymen with a fraud charge."

To IanC Post #21 : "As a wise Russian once said, They are hearing the thunderous claps of our wallets closing!"

And the best for last :
To Takao #26 : "In the old days programs were designed by geniuses to be run by idiots. With Ubi, it has become programs designed by idiots to be modded by geniuses. "

At least some people are on the same wave length...

Excuse me for expressing me freely now :
This is not Ubisoft only ( which is only a small wheel of the system's structure and mechanics ) I have no doubts that Ubisoft is pressured to from above. ( Neal too probably BTW .. ). It happens all the same to all of us individually, in our everyday live, because we surrendered once to the pressures from above and carry on doing so....from times immemorial... until we are enslaved, and our mouth stiched...
Call it the spiral of inferno, or whatever...

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

If people had thought it over first and voted with their wallet, it would have stopped here and Ubisoft would have been forced to drop this intrusive system.

There is no distinction between not buying a game because it's not a good game and not buying a game because it has something else attached to it, in the eyes of the retailer. If all the people that are 'voting with their wallet' have actually emailled Ubisoft to tell them that they aren't buying the software because of DRM, then that is at least trying to let them know. If you have just not bought the game, then you really haven't done anything at all. Really, you've done nothing. Inaction is not an action. Email them, or phone them up if you feel that strongly. For all the effort it takes to post here, you could have whipped up an email and fired it off to Ubi. One email a day would be letting them know of your displeasure.

Originally Posted by JMV

UBI has to know what we custommers want, because utltimately we decide, not vice verca. We don't have to bend to their rules, and a bit of discipline and wit from those that don't like DRM as a principle would be a clear remainder to them. You don't want your freedom or privacy altered, or an unfinished product : have a responsible behavior. Unite and send a clear message to UBI, because at the end we buy or don't buy their stuff. Period.

They don't have to know anyting. Lots of businesses have gone belly up, simply because they didn't listen to their customers and did not produce the goods they wanted to buy. In an ideal world, yes they would be actively canvassing us, but this is the real world and people run businesses badly, or SH is such a small franchise it's not even worth researching, who knows, but just because we want them to listen to us and it would benefit them to do so, doesn't mean they will.

[TDK1044]

I think people need to look objectively at the situation at the end of the year.

Silent Hunter 5 was a buggy mess at release...just like Silent Hunter III and Silent Hunter IV. It took those games 4 patches and significant modding before they were truly enjoyable.

Silent Hunter 5 has an even tougher journey ahead of it. It's by no means certain that Ubisoft will patch it beyond 1.2, because sales of the game are apparantly not great and the retailers are heavily reducing the price of the game to try and move them off the shelves.

In my opinion, if 1.2 is the final patch then the game is doomed. If Ubisoft authorizes a third patch and considers removing the DRM, then Silent Hunter 5 could become the best subsim ever.

Time will tell.

[JMV]

Yeah, that's what I say, it's a stupid world were only quick money prevails...
They have to learn from what we say, otherwise it "should" be bad for them, but it's not like that because we act in a disorganised selfish manner, and they do too.
Spiritually, anyway this planet has never been able to see further than its nose... That will not change soon, and that's why everything is going against the wall... Sorry.

[JMV]

I'm saying that, but the truth is Subsim and the modders are not making any money, Ubisoft does, and waits for us, and watches the job done by the modders to later (?) release another unfinished unpolished work.
I'm sorry, If I do a job like that, all the more if I have the possibility to spy on what the others are doing, and am not doing better, I would get sacked from my job; On the contrary, if they do, we continue buying from them. Where is the logic ? We're only asking for a worse job next time, if any more SH; as THEY, and others, have put computer gaming in general into a niche, for their own benefit, ( not moddable Consoles and the like ) and to our detriment. How many real good polished games on consoles ? About 5%, not more.
The modders on Subsim are doing their job, and for free... and to a quality not achieved by remunarated professionals like they are supposed to be. Money, money,money... I'm telling you, that's all there is to it.
Thank you all Subsim modders, for your devotion, ferventness, comittment, desinterestedness,
and spiritual advancement and comprehention of the RULES before may be anyone else..

[Nordmann]

Don't like it? Don't buy it. But don't expect everyone to share your 'opinion' of the game or its developer.

[JMV]

Too bad. I respect you have the right to stand your own ground. As for myself I know I'm not alone.
Wirh all due respect
JMV.

[janh]

Originally Posted by JMV

I find this DRM thing is against our privacy and freedom. It's a violence done to us custommers.,,,

I wouldn't worry so much. We'll soon see whether customers liked to be treated that way. And whether the negative press that Ubi has now attracted like a magnet will fade over to their console business. But I noticed that the Ubisoft Corporate web appearance is offline for a few days now, and that the stock price has gone down rapidly in the past couple of days already. It has almost lost what after it had gained a bit in the last 3 month. This will be the wallet of the customers speaking through the investor's reactions. And due date of the Q4 sales is this week... Just see how the majority of the people liked it... and then we can hopefully soon get SHV after the big patch and play single player without any online barriers! And other companies like EA might even back off from such OSP schemes and online DRMs after seeing the result of this debacle unfold in the next 6 months to full extend...

[JMV]

I'm not saying that SH5 could not be a good game ( after 3 years of modding ), they will see for themselves. Sh3 for example, could have been more improved from the beginning had they released more patches, but they didn't, because they were more interrested in watching us do it. They relied somewhat on Subsim modders for their next one...
I wouldn't bet too much on patches. They didn't do it before, because they prefer to watch over the modders shoulder, for new ideas, etc... But for the result of getting SO MANY informations from us, I honestly think they have an issue between professionalism, moral fairness and MONEY.
OK, time will tell, they have the right to make mistakes as we all do, but I hope they have a good wakeup call for their future stategy, because it is time they understand something...
That's the way companies go down too, you know, for the less "sharks like" of them.
Some people don't know were their friends are, that's all I'm saying.
Subsim is their friend, but they don't treat us the same way.
We don't get the return that we should. They can see freely what we do, we never can on the opposite.
Don't you know what kind of game that is already ?? DECEPTION

[Stormbringer]

Originally Posted by Arclight

Following your logic, either no one bought games with that DRM, or every game today has it. Neither is true.

I'm not sure how you came to this outcome from what I stated.

My point was and still is, that if people did not buy any Ubisoft titles (SH5 being a tiny part of this, as Assassin's Creed II and others to come will outsell it...and you should notice that nowhere in my post did I limit this to SH5...) after they imposed this DRM method, then that would send a clear message as to how well the DRM is accepted. If this was a SH5 only boycott, it wouldn't tell Ubisoft anything other than subsims aren't a good line of development anymore.

Now that it has been accepted, at least to a degree, with Ubisoft's new titles (especially Assassin's Creed II), I expect to see similar schemes from other software manufacturers, who would love to have constant demographic information of their user base in order to determine marketing strategy. They have been hesitant to do so in the past, because previous efforts to establish this type of 'phoning home' software has met resistance. The only success before this is with Microsoft Windows itself. When a strategy ceases to meet resistance, the powers that be will push in. It is inevitable.

It is not a black and white condition. It is a condition where acceptance will lead to further implementation - but that doesn't ensure a 100% implementation - nor do I see that I ever stated it that way.

@mookiemookie, I'm sorry you took offense, but I'm going to call it as I see it. Any ire I have is not toward those who want to play these games. I'm one of them! Any ire I have is being forced to choose whether I want to do so at the expense of my privacy. When others support the system, it makes the chance of that system changing all the less likely.

@Nisgeis, I'd love to email Ubisoft about how I feel. Though I've searched their websites far and wide for an email address to do that with and haven't found one.

It looks like I'm either going to have to sign-up for their direct forum and add to the general chatter there on the subject (though I'd rather avoid that), send traditional mail via US post, or phone them up to do so.

If you have a general contact email address, please post it.