Game end sequence ***Spoiler alert*** - Page 5

Ducimus · 04-22-10, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danasan

What I am talking about regarding the image is the symbolism in it.

That is exactly what im complaining about. The symbolism in it is huge, and It crosses a line from historical representation to glorification. Thats my final stance on the subject of that image, im tired of talking about it.

mookiemookie · 04-22-10, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

That is exactly what im complaining about. The symbolism in it is huge, and It crosses a line from historical representation to glorification.

Yeah but is it a simulation game depicting the glorification of the uboatwaffe, or is the game itself making the statement? I'm inclined to believe the former.

danasan · 04-22-10, 01:33 PM

Thank you, Ducimus. That is what I mean. No more, no less.

Edith: It is OK anywhere in the world, but not here in Germany, as long as there is a breed of neo********rs here.

danasan

danasan · 04-22-10, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Nice post danasan.
I'm sure your father had some incredible stories.

Well, people torn apart by a single handgranate; parts of them hanging in trees like fruits. Executions in Poland, Russia. I was able to track back some facts on the net, but because of privacy, I won' t link to that.

danasan

elanaiba · 04-22-10, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Id never argue against the swaztika being displayed in game. Thats historical context. That flowery imagery though, crosses the line from representation, to glorification, and i will always maintain it is in POOR TASTE because of it. Your artist should have been more mindful.

Edit: I have half a mind to to post pictures of holocost victims to remind people what the swaztika stands for.

I get your point. Don't blame the artist, blame my intention (yes, I did give him the exact propaganda picture you had in mind as example).

I will think about this more, I cant say I agree - the opposite seems to be be to have a game where you tell the people to sink this or that and in the end you wash your hands to be politically correct.

kylania · 04-22-10, 03:13 PM

Problem solved: http://www.filefront.com/16208687/Al...ingScreen.zip/

Replaced the previously mentioned campaign ending screens with this one instead:

Btw, this image was the "Armistice" ending image that shipped with the game.

danasan · 04-22-10, 04:07 PM

Well, kylania

that is awsome. Nothing to complain about. I remember once ending my campaign in May 1945 with an XXI in Flensburg.

As there were many boats scuttled here in Flensburg Bay: The guys went home as good as they were able to. No mooring at all, just leaving the boat. As I was talking to Mr. Zierk (former served on U - 81 (Guggenberger)) then on U - 370 ( a VII C) scuttled in Gelting Bay in May 45. "We took nothing with us but our lives"

http://www.uboat.net/boats/u370.htm

http://www.ubootwaffe.net/crews/crew...;year=;bquery=

What you offer here is much more than I could expect after ramming the quais in that narrow harbour in Flensburg. (Which it is still nowadays)...

danasan

Ducimus · 04-22-10, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I get your point. Don't blame the artist, blame my intention (yes, I did give him the exact propaganda picture you had in mind as example).

I will think about this more, I cant say I agree - the opposite seems to be be to have a game where you tell the people to sink this or that and in the end you wash your hands to be politically correct.

And i understand the other end of the argument. Not displaying swaztika's and similar items is like whitewashing history, making things look like something they're not, and is equally disgusting.

There's a balance to be achieved between the two i think. The one picture is on the far end of the scale though.

Carotio · 04-22-10, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danasan

But there is still a minority here in Germany which is fed and or influenced by images like that, swastikas etc.

I have been in touch with youngsters, 16 years old, preaching the old story over and over again.

As long as somebody is able to abstact reality from fiction, like you and I can, it is OK.

Some guys here can' t so far...

Last year, I have met a Romanian guy, whom I actually liked untill a while ago, when we by chance started to talk history and then it turns out he doesn't believe in holocaust having taken place in that big scale as it did. And he is a university student for Christ sake and should know better.
The revisionist theory is slowly but steadily spreading, and therefore we must make sure to keep enlighten the young people to avoid the history to repeat itself, but sadly I'm afraid it ultimately will...
Glorifying the Nazi regime in a video game aimed for the young casual players are not exactly helping in that regard. Most of us elder simulation freaks can see the difference, but I think such an image does glorify the regime in the eyes of a young boy, so an alternative screen would have been in order.
EDIT: the image from Kylania up there seems like a much better image.

Platapus · 04-22-10, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=Faamecanic;1369095] I do agree there is no need for the swastika as it was a symbol of evil.

/QUOTE]

The swastika is not a symbol of evil. The swastika is an ancient symbol of good luck.

Among its other names, it is also called a sun wheel, fylfot, and in Germany the Hakenkreuz hooked cross.

The Nazi party did not originate the swastika, but adopted it as their symbol because it did have a long history of being a good luck or righteous symbol.

The fact that bad people used the swastika as a misplaced symbol, does not adversely reflect on the symbol, but on the people.

I do have to admit some surprise when I was in South Korea and I saw swastikas on some of the buildings.
Don't hate the symbol, hate the people who misused the symbol.

captainprid · 04-22-10, 05:07 PM

This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight.

Noren · 04-22-10, 05:15 PM

True, the swastika was an ancient symbol from India but we have to put it in contemporary international context. It is close related to the nazi regime and therefore banned. It amazes me that neo-nazism is growing, when ww2 happened just 65 years ago.

Im glad that Germany has taken the truth about the holocoust to heart and continue to showcase concentrationcamps and Im just as glad that info about the holocoust is mandatory in primary shool in my country, Sweden.
If we dont learn from history, mankind will just repeat it.

captainprid · 04-22-10, 05:25 PM

Gawd i'm off to do myself in with my noose of piety and razor blade of self-satisfaction. While i'm at it, i'm going to stop calling myself English because of Glencoe...you know just incase people get the wrong idea

karamazovnew · 04-22-10, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carotio

Last year, I have met a Romanian guy, whom I actually liked untill a while ago, when we by chance started to talk history and then it turns out he doesn't believe in holocaust having taken place in that big scale as it did. And he is a university student for Christ sake and should know better.

EDIT: the image from Kylania up there seems like a much better image.

I wonder what his reaction would be like if he learned about OUR (I mean, the Romanian) involvement in the Holocaust. Can anyone here spell D-E-N-I-A-L?

Well, I'll reserve my current rant to your old friend.

The current problem with the Holocaust is that it takes a good BBC made movie about it to remind us that the piles of bodies were actually bodies of people. It's too "clean" in a messy way. It's too far back. They didn't have Internet or IPods back then so we've lost touch with them. Why should anyone care if it was 10 mil, 6 or even 1 million? How could anyone care about the extent of it all during all that maddness? It's like watching the news for an updated body-count on the latest earthquake. 2000 only? Bleah... I expected more from a 7.2...

The Nazis and the Holocaust have been lifted on such high ground after the war that all sense of reality about it has been lost. It's like the perfect crime story, a story to scare children at night. It's sort'of like Jesus (in the opposite way, of course), too inhuman, too high to be touched or repeated. So we feel safe from it... How many other Holocausts have we seen since then? Cambodgia was in my book a much more "messy" affair. What about Zair and Somalia? Heck, I'd take my chances with an SS officer instead of a Khmere Rouge any day...

There's no war, I repeat that, NO war without people suffering and having their lives destroyed. If it's a gas chamber or a bullet in the head, it's the same deal. You loose your home, your family, your friends, your life. Even if you do survive, you still loose everything you regarded as "your life" and "yourself".
Holocausts have happened since 45, and will continue to do so, in times of war AND peace. We still don't care **** about things that happen to others. But hey.. we shed a fake tear about the poor jews that died in the bad old Holocaust.

Well, here's one for you: she survived but her parents didn't. She was 6 at that time (1942).

So let's imagine that she hadn't survived. What would've been the total then? 1,000,001? or 6,000,001? Or maybe even 6,000,002... She might've looked pretty small in this picture, you probably wouldn't even notice her:

The point is, we're ready to do it all over again. We've been doing it since then anyway. A lesson lost in the heat of the Cold War.

PS: sorry for the rant, and btw, how did we get from the SH5 ending pics to this? Damn Holocaust, ruins all the fun in a game.

robbo180265 · 04-22-10, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainprid

This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight.

I'm with you on this one - this has been blown completely out of proportion.

For God's sake we're all adults here , I'm so sick of do-gooders telling me what I can and can't play/watch etc etc.

Reality check - it's an end screen in a computer game - it's not a call to arms for the Nazi party. If you don't like it , change it. Kyliana has posted a mod to enable you to do just that.

And just to show how stupid this is - we've gone from a game end scene, to photo's of the holocaust in one thread.

04-22-10, 01:33 PM	#63
danasan Elite Spam Hunter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Flensburg / Germany Posts: 1,141 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Thank you, Ducimus. That is what I mean. No more, no less. Edith: It is OK anywhere in the world, but not here in Germany, as long as there is a breed of neo********rs here. danasan __________________ "I invite you to go inside this submergible hole in the water where you can nicely hide from destroyers."

04-22-10, 03:13 PM	#66
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 118 Uploads: 0	Problem solved: http://www.filefront.com/16208687/Al...ingScreen.zip/ Replaced the previously mentioned campaign ending screens with this one instead: Btw, this image was the "Armistice" ending image that shipped with the game. __________________ Last edited by kylania; 04-22-10 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Clarification of this picture's source

04-22-10, 04:07 PM	#67
danasan Elite Spam Hunter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Flensburg / Germany Posts: 1,141 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Well, kylania that is awsome. Nothing to complain about. I remember once ending my campaign in May 1945 with an XXI in Flensburg. As there were many boats scuttled here in Flensburg Bay: The guys went home as good as they were able to. No mooring at all, just leaving the boat. As I was talking to Mr. Zierk (former served on U - 81 (Guggenberger)) then on U - 370 ( a VII C) scuttled in Gelting Bay in May 45. "We took nothing with us but our lives" http://www.uboat.net/boats/u370.htm http://www.ubootwaffe.net/crews/crew...;year=;bquery= What you offer here is much more than I could expect after ramming the quais in that narrow harbour in Flensburg. (Which it is still nowadays)... danasan __________________ "I invite you to go inside this submergible hole in the water where you can nicely hide from destroyers." Last edited by danasan; 04-22-10 at 04:29 PM.

04-22-10, 05:00 PM	#70
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	[QUOTE=Faamecanic;1369095] I do agree there is no need for the swastika as it was a symbol of evil. /QUOTE] The swastika is not a symbol of evil. The swastika is an ancient symbol of good luck. Among its other names, it is also called a sun wheel, fylfot, and in Germany the Hakenkreuz hooked cross. The Nazi party did not originate the swastika, but adopted it as their symbol because it did have a long history of being a good luck or righteous symbol. The fact that bad people used the swastika as a misplaced symbol, does not adversely reflect on the symbol, but on the people. I do have to admit some surprise when I was in South Korea and I saw swastikas on some of the buildings. Don't hate the symbol, hate the people who misused the symbol. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-22-10, 05:07 PM	#71
captainprid Watch Officer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blackpool, England Posts: 347 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight. __________________ Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;

04-22-10, 05:15 PM	#72
Noren 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 284 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	True, the swastika was an ancient symbol from India but we have to put it in contemporary international context. It is close related to the nazi regime and therefore banned. It amazes me that neo-nazism is growing, when ww2 happened just 65 years ago. Im glad that Germany has taken the truth about the holocoust to heart and continue to showcase concentrationcamps and Im just as glad that info about the holocoust is mandatory in primary shool in my country, Sweden. If we dont learn from history, mankind will just repeat it.

04-22-10, 05:25 PM	#73
captainprid Watch Officer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blackpool, England Posts: 347 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Gawd i'm off to do myself in with my noose of piety and razor blade of self-satisfaction. While i'm at it, i'm going to stop calling myself English because of Glencoe...you know just incase people get the wrong idea __________________ Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;