Game end sequence ***Spoiler alert***

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Id never argue against the swaztika being displayed in game. Thats historical context. That flowery imagery though, crosses the line from representation, to glorification, and i will always maintain it is in POOR TASTE because of it. Your artist should have been more mindful.

Edit: I have half a mind to to post pictures of holocost victims to remind people what the swaztika stands for.

I get your point. Don't blame the artist, blame my intention (yes, I did give him the exact propaganda picture you had in mind as example).

I will think about this more, I cant say I agree - the opposite seems to be be to have a game where you tell the people to sink this or that and in the end you wash your hands to be politically correct.

[kylania]

Problem solved: http://www.filefront.com/16208687/Al...ingScreen.zip/

Replaced the previously mentioned campaign ending screens with this one instead:



Btw, this image was the "Armistice" ending image that shipped with the game.

[danasan]

Well, kylania

that is awsome. Nothing to complain about. I remember once ending my campaign in May 1945 with an XXI in Flensburg.

As there were many boats scuttled here in Flensburg Bay: The guys went home as good as they were able to. No mooring at all, just leaving the boat. As I was talking to Mr. Zierk (former served on U - 81 (Guggenberger)) then on U - 370 ( a VII C) scuttled in Gelting Bay in May 45. "We took nothing with us but our lives"

http://www.uboat.net/boats/u370.htm

http://www.ubootwaffe.net/crews/crew...;year=;bquery=


What you offer here is much more than I could expect after ramming the quais in that narrow harbour in Flensburg. (Which it is still nowadays)...

danasan

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I get your point. Don't blame the artist, blame my intention (yes, I did give him the exact propaganda picture you had in mind as example).

I will think about this more, I cant say I agree - the opposite seems to be be to have a game where you tell the people to sink this or that and in the end you wash your hands to be politically correct.

And i understand the other end of the argument. Not displaying swaztika's and similar items is like whitewashing history, making things look like something they're not, and is equally disgusting.

There's a balance to be achieved between the two i think. The one picture is on the far end of the scale though.

[Carotio]

Originally Posted by danasan

But there is still a minority here in Germany which is fed and or influenced by images like that, swastikas etc.

I have been in touch with youngsters, 16 years old, preaching the old story over and over again.

As long as somebody is able to abstact reality from fiction, like you and I can, it is OK.

Some guys here can' t so far...

Last year, I have met a Romanian guy, whom I actually liked untill a while ago, when we by chance started to talk history and then it turns out he doesn't believe in holocaust having taken place in that big scale as it did. And he is a university student for Christ sake and should know better.
The revisionist theory is slowly but steadily spreading, and therefore we must make sure to keep enlighten the young people to avoid the history to repeat itself, but sadly I'm afraid it ultimately will...
Glorifying the Nazi regime in a video game aimed for the young casual players are not exactly helping in that regard. Most of us elder simulation freaks can see the difference, but I think such an image does glorify the regime in the eyes of a young boy, so an alternative screen would have been in order.
EDIT: the image from Kylania up there seems like a much better image.

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by Carotio

Last year, I have met a Romanian guy, whom I actually liked untill a while ago, when we by chance started to talk history and then it turns out he doesn't believe in holocaust having taken place in that big scale as it did. And he is a university student for Christ sake and should know better.

EDIT: the image from Kylania up there seems like a much better image.

I wonder what his reaction would be like if he learned about OUR (I mean, the Romanian) involvement in the Holocaust. Can anyone here spell D-E-N-I-A-L? Well, I'll reserve my current rant to your old friend.

The current problem with the Holocaust is that it takes a good BBC made movie about it to remind us that the piles of bodies were actually bodies of people. It's too "clean" in a messy way. It's too far back. They didn't have Internet or IPods back then so we've lost touch with them. Why should anyone care if it was 10 mil, 6 or even 1 million? How could anyone care about the extent of it all during all that maddness? It's like watching the news for an updated body-count on the latest earthquake. 2000 only? Bleah... I expected more from a 7.2...

The Nazis and the Holocaust have been lifted on such high ground after the war that all sense of reality about it has been lost. It's like the perfect crime story, a story to scare children at night. It's sort'of like Jesus (in the opposite way, of course), too inhuman, too high to be touched or repeated. So we feel safe from it... How many other Holocausts have we seen since then? Cambodgia was in my book a much more "messy" affair. What about Zair and Somalia? Heck, I'd take my chances with an SS officer instead of a Khmere Rouge any day...

There's no war, I repeat that, NO war without people suffering and having their lives destroyed. If it's a gas chamber or a bullet in the head, it's the same deal. You loose your home, your family, your friends, your life. Even if you do survive, you still loose everything you regarded as "your life" and "yourself".
Holocausts have happened since 45, and will continue to do so, in times of war AND peace. We still don't care **** about things that happen to others. But hey.. we shed a fake tear about the poor jews that died in the bad old Holocaust.

Well, here's one for you: she survived but her parents didn't. She was 6 at that time (1942).




So let's imagine that she hadn't survived. What would've been the total then? 1,000,001? or 6,000,001? Or maybe even 6,000,002... She might've looked pretty small in this picture, you probably wouldn't even notice her:



The point is, we're ready to do it all over again. We've been doing it since then anyway. A lesson lost in the heat of the Cold War.

PS: sorry for the rant, and btw, how did we get from the SH5 ending pics to this? Damn Holocaust, ruins all the fun in a game.