Game end sequence ***Spoiler alert***

[captainprid]

Sorry chaps. There was another screen which came first in the sequence of three. Find it below....

[IanC]

Ok that one looks pretty cool, too bad about the flags though.

[captainprid]

Well what is historical accuracy compared to peoples tender sensibilities

[Rip]

Here I though Black may was May of 2010 when the much sought after patch for SHV failed to materialize?

[IanC]

Originally Posted by captainprid

Well what is historical accuracy compared to peoples tender sensibilities

Well I can understand the sensibilities, just that I don't think that drawing can be modded historically... or can it?

Edit: Eh what am I saying, looks like a (relatively) easy photoshop job.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by captainprid

Sorry chaps. There was another screen which came first in the sequence of three. Find it below....

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...-21_174403.jpg

I'll say it. That's disgusting and in poor taste. ANYTHING that glorifies the reich is disgusting and in poor taste.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I'll say it. That's disgusting and in poor taste. ANYTHING that glorifies the reich is disgusting and in poor taste.

you mean like a video game where players assume roles of members of the Reich's military and simulate the killing of American and British ships and people?

If you are willing to play a German WWII-U-boat commander and sink American and British ships, I don't think you should be offended by some end of game screen display.

[Noren]

I'll say,there's a distinction between enjoying the satisfaction of playing the enemy side in an simulation and feeling true glory when the swastika or third reich memoria are shown. Of course, somewhere the thrill of the hunt and the true horror of the war meet and then its not so funny anymore...

Its true, Hitler killed jews amd duped the germans but what other crimes did he do - that other conqouring countries has'nt done before his times? As we play, there are still contries who do not hold honest elections with a free press... I pray they will be gone before I die.

[Commie]

Originally Posted by captainprid

Sorry chaps. There was another screen which came first in the sequence of three. Find it below....

Doesn't this slide contradict the next one you say shows up with the 'u-boat campaign fails'? It's a bit pointless to praise the U-boat campaign one minute and your actions and then the next talk about how the campaign fails. The last two slides in particular seem rushed and seem almost to be there just to 'show' that the game isn't promoting Nazi triumphalism with their 'BUT in the end Germany loses' bit, which is obvious anyway.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Platapus

you mean like a video game where players assume roles of members of the Reich's military and simulate the killing of American and British ships and people?

If you are willing to play a German WWII-U-boat commander and sink American and British ships, I don't think you should be offended by some end of game screen display.

WRONG. There's a BIG difference in playing a submarine simulation as a weapon of war in and of itself. And things like imagery that gloriy the 3rd reich.

There are several things wrong with the imagery in that picture.

1.) The emphasis on the flags in the background. Three of them for christ sakes. Having removed the swaztika means jack, we all know what it is.

2.) The reich eagle in the foreground. Having removed the swaztika from it's talons means jack. We all know what it is.

3.) The uboat is sandwiched between the two, being wrapped in the symbolism of an ideology.

4.) The context of the message smacks of negationism

5.) The composition, and theme of the overall picture is a carbon copy of Nazi propaganda posters. Google image search that and you'll see simularities

6.) The flowery rose petals shower, indicating heroic" and triumphant over the existing symbolism. Kinda like a roman parade you see in the movies.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

WRONG. There's a BIG difference in playing a submarine simulation as a weapon of war in and of itself. And things like imagery that gloriy the 3rd reich.

But isn't that image part of the subsim?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by IanC

But isn't that image part of the subsim?

Context. Context is everything. The context in that one end screen is exactly as i described it in my last post, and it's all bad.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Context. Context is everything. The context in that one end screen is exactly as i described it in my last post, and it's all bad.

Well yeah exactly. The context of that image is that you're a German U-boat kaleun who just finished a successful campaign for The Fatherland. It's part of the game.

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

5.) The composition, and theme of the overall picture is a carbon copy of Nazi propaganda posters. Google image search that and you'll see simularities

6.) The flowery rose petals shower, indicating heroic" and triumphant over the existing symbolism. Kinda like a roman parade you see in the movies.

Sorry Dulcimus but I think point 5 and 6 are enough to Justify the use of such an image. Have you seen some propaganda images of uboot returng home? It's prefectly fit that your successful sub is depicted in such a way because that's what it would have been done in RL.

Most soldiers fight wars they did not choose to wage but, by playing the role of an uboot commander, you're doing the bidding of the German political class of the time, like it or not. That means the nazi party.

[captainprid]

This argument is a little strange to say the least and I am struggling to fathom out the arguments.

In the first instance we are playing a simulator that represents basically the murder of innocents by a fascist regime but yet people are complaining that it glorifies the Nazi state, that is irony at its best.
It is important that games like this are framed in an historical context and that means including in the game why the U-Boats were there after all.

I would think National Socialism is abhorrent to pretty much everyone who plays and enjoys this game as well as the contributors of this forum but nevertheless, it was a fact. Freedom of expression and the fight to maintain that freedom was the reason that so many people died; to dismiss imagery and blatant facts as racsist and then try to ban them for that reason goes against everything people fought for.

If the lessons of history are forgotten then they will repeats themselves over and over again.

I understand the point that the last screen I posted blatantly glorifies Nazi Germany but it is set in an historical context, it is not promoting National Socialism at all. To a lesser extent, in SHIII the band playing at the quayside could be considered to be glorifying the boats march to war or much of the dialogue conducted with the flotilla chief in SHV could be considered the same.

The bigger issue here is the fact that Nazi symbolism is banned in many European countries, frankly that is their affair, in England it is not illegal say or display anything which would interfere with freedom of expression short of inciting racial hatred. Quite frankly the Nazi's and for that matter the communists were scum, most totalitarian regimes are. They murder and butcher innocents for their own twisted ideals but the reason we fight is so people can say what they please, so they can be free to choose.

I may not agree with what you say but I will defend with my life you're right to say it