Kaczynski >possibly< responsible for the crash

[heartc]

LOL, ridiculous. The irony is that with all your whining and revanchism when the bodies were not even recovered yet, you kinda proved Kaczyński right after all, at least as far as you are concerned.

What is funny is that with your recently discovered skepticism regarding the institution that is the EU, one would have thought you should have some sympathy with what this man's point was all about. For Poland, what started with WWII didn't end in 1945. It ended only relatively recently in ~1990, so they will get concerned when they see the forming of another bureaucrat apparatus that loves to rule and puts the idea of freedom not at the very top of its priority list. Also, with the pragmatically good relationship between Germany and Russia, while the latter has no qualms about bombing a neighboring democracy even in the 21st century, I don't find it too surprising when some alarm bells are ringing in Poland. Wanting to build a pipeline from Russia that bypasses a fellow EU member state didn't help either in building up the confidence.

But instead of thinking about this, you play the drama queen ala "I don't wear a mustache, how dare you!" and would have loved to put Kaczyński on your ignore list, not realizing that this was exactly his point. All you did is reap the lines given to you by our own biased and EU worshipping media and run with it. Your god damn Spiegel has lots of (frm. Chancellor) Schröder like Russia lovers and former commies in their staff, who - in addition - remember very well that Poland was one of those who spoiled the party in 1989/90. Who allowed Poland to speak up? How dare they have their own opinion!

If the EU is meant to stay on a path of freedom and democracy, it would do well to listen to her smaller member states instead of listening to Russia.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I forgot whether it was you or somebody else calling me names and calling me a swine there.

not me, besides that would be violation of PETA's movement regulations.

Originally Posted by Skybird

A principal thing, adressing the mods:

double "d", mkay?

Originally Posted by Skybird

Against this relativisation I file my protest.

It reminds me the scene from Stalingrad(1993)Soon after the arrival at the train station in Stalingrad:
-Ich muss gegen das Verhalten Ihrer Leute protestieren.
-Dann protestieren Sie. Am besten beim Führer selbst

Everybody's free to express opinion. There were ppl who posted in that previous thread about planes, possible pilot mistakes etc but you just had to came and CTRL+C/CTRL+V your old stuff which can be found in plenty of threads dealing with Poland. And actually the logic behind posting this was(only in my opinion)none so I commented on that. And don't try to play a victim now coz most of political threads in which u post end like that. You write cr... , ppl respond to that and u feel deeply offended. and I'm not trying to defend anyone-every thread has its name/topic. You could easily start your own and write there. When you off-top you get what you deserved. What is more mods-in that case Xabbarus- reacted coz I got infractions(and i stated it b4)so stop crying.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Now, post in this thread if you have something constructive to say on its topic, or stay away. Personal insults are not wanted here, and I will not just swallow them again like yesterday. when the French airbus crashed in the Atlantic last year, there was a thread about possible causes, too, including pilot or maintenance errors. Nobody took offence from that. There is no reason to take offence now, just because this time it is a Polish plane.

i almost peed in my pants. You are no one to tell where I can post, especially after u said:"??"oh, i've just noticed that a few posts have been deleted.ok so nvm. he just said he will stay back from that thread but after all he could not restrain himself and posted a few more.
In a nutshell: when u go off topic don;t expect ppl to remain indifferent.

A principal thing, adressing the mods:

do not warn me over anything here.

Isn't it funny how in one part someone can talk about forum rules yet then demand their post cannot be looked at in regards to mods following forum rules.

This was mentioned by me in a moderate, short comment, and I refuse to accept any criticism over that.

What one person considers moderate or short is irrelevant, since the issue was the timing and the nature of the comments. Though mainly the timing, which was then made worse by going off on it all over again.
Refusal to accept criticism is a sign that he doesn't get it.

What is funny is that with your recently discovered skepticism regarding the institution that is the EU, one would have thought you should have some sympathy with what this man's point was all about.

I am afraid you will find lots of examples of his views being called crazy....when its Sky talking about other people that hold the views he himself holds.

[iambecomelife]

"But when germany gets constantly pointed at as being a Nazi country, and the people and our leaders being racists and reincarnations of Hitler - then we Germans time and again are expected to just swallow that, to behave as if nothing has happened, and to just show a kind smile. OTH gets away with it. "

Lol - the whingeing German nationalist cometh. Note the same sense of perpetual "stabbed in the back" victimhood we've seen since, oh, 1919. Ah well - if I only had certain forum poster's comments to go by, I would really hate Germany and all its people with a passion. Thankfully,

A) I wasn't brought up that way, and

B) I've met many humane, compassionate Germans at work, school, & other locations in person. As even Daniel Goldhagen pointed out, judging all modern-day Germans based on some Germans' actions in the past is pointless and stupid. The kind of thinking we'd expect from certain slimeballs on this forum, but not from civilized human beings.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by kranz

Oh maybe not. Let the proofs of your ignorance remain unchanged.

Zing! Nail + HEAD!

[XabbaRus]

OK this topic will be closed unless the muck slinging back and forth stops.

I understand the Poles are upset however given there is a lot of speculation on the reasons for the crash, Skybirds position is one of them that is doing the rounds on the net.

I don't believe in being disrespctful to the dead but all of you need to discuss it maturely.

Final warning.

[Skybird]

@Xabba,
thanks for changing the headline.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

OK this topic will be closed unless the muck slinging back and forth stops.

I understand the Poles are upset however given there is a lot of speculation on the reasons for the crash, Skybirds position is one of them that is doing the rounds on the net.

I don't believe in being disrespctful to the dead but all of you need to discuss it maturely.

Final warning.

actually it's not about this thread, coz Skybird could have made a separate one for w/e he wanted but he had to post in the previous.

[kranz]

now on topic

Originally Posted by Skybird

3. Kazcynski had nothing better to do than to accuse him of insubordination instead of leaving the decision to the expert'S experience.

4. The plane yesterday tried to land four times in thick fog, ignoring the very urgent advise from tower not to land,and to evade to a safe place. This although the plane is more than twenty years old and ILS was not available.

point 3:it's pure LOL, how do u know?
point 4:true-it was believed yesterday that: there was heavy fog and the pilot tried to land four times BUT polish TV found a man who used to be a journalist or still is and he lives near this airport.(and he is a Pole)Ha saw the accident and said that there was barely any fog in the area-of course it's hard to tell where the fog was and whereas it reduced the visibility. And about those "4 attempts". It is only a rumor. No one saw the plane to change the altitude four times. Four circles around the area don't have to mean four landing attempts.(as it was said by polish aviation experts and pilots).

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Skybird

@Xabba,
thanks for changing the headline.

Yeah. Comes in handy when you're a sack of garbage too yellow to stand by your original words. Doesn't it?

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Either them or the Crazy World of Arthur Brown!

You're an evil, evil man.

[SteamWake]

I dont see what this thread is supposed to accomplish seeing as how it is based on pure speculation and a series of random events.

[CaptainHaplo]

Iambecomelife - check you PM box.

[JamesT73J]

It's possible there's a misunderstanding from Russian terminology regarding the 'fourth attempt'. Russian practice apparently refers to the turn onto final with the figure '4'; i.e. fourth turn. I'm not sure more than one attempt to land was made.

As for VIP pressure, it's total speculation at this point. It is equally possible the crew had get-it-down syndrome. This type of accident has killed many aviators, and unfortunately will probably continue to do so.

[Happy Times]

If there were any pressure felt or vocal demands to the pilots, it was more likely to be caused by the presence of the generals on board.

One contributing factor was the language barrier between the plane and the tower.

But they did do 4 aproaches and most likely understood the recomendations to go elsewhere.

One have to understand the emotions the Poles on that plane must have had taking this trip.

Everything points to an pilot error, to a very human one, but still a error.