SH5 (campaign) is so boring

[kylania]

Originally Posted by Magnum

A ship loaded with important war documents/troops or whatever and with some light escorts will leave port X heading to port Y in the next few days. Intercept it and sunk it. Sounds damn boring, nothing special or hard.

But when we arrive there, we found out that Thomsen already sunk our target and the enemy escorts are hunting him down. They managed to damage his ship pretty bad so he was forced to surface. So sudden the whole things go hot and we have to choose very fast .. help Thomsen or stay safe far away.

But things go worst. Out from nowhere a scout plane shows up and indicates to the escorts our position, so one of the escort ship is heading on full speed to us guided by the plane and his sonar. In the meantime Thomsen, our best friend, is screaming for help Also your crew should start screaming, going crazy.. maybe some of the crew members start to disobey orders.. you know, like we saw in Das Boot. We have a FPS here, so I should be able to get out my gun and shot down any crew member who disobey me :P

That mission is already in game, the single mission "The Fate of U-110". Your first description all the way up to being sighted by the plane you'd never see. That's just mission description.

The rest of it is just scripted fluff, not gameplay. The second time a crew went crazy when they were sighted by a destroyer people would come and bitch about how their crew didn't do what they were supposed to.

We don't have an FPS, there's nothing FPS about the game other than the controls WASD used for moving a camera.

Originally Posted by Magnum

Now this would be a very fun mission, we could feel the tension and every mission or campaign would be really dynamic. I mean, we would never know what we can expect out there and objectives are changing rapidly.

Problem is, that's not dynamic at all, it's entirely scripted. There's a huge difference between "dynamic" and "random". Objectives do change, though possibly not rapidly. I think you're expecting a different scale of dynamic action.

The CAMPAIGN is dynamic, the encounters possibly aren't. If you do A then B can happen. If you choose to go to the Med, you get those missions, if you choose to stay in the Atlantic you can visit America and do those missions. That's a dynamic campaign. Not small scale, people running around scripted sequences, or individual ship intercepts.

Anyway, bottom line is you have the mission editor, so nothing is stopping you from making the missions you want to play.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by Magnum

So the whole campaign is about to find a large convoy, get into the right position, fire the torpedoes, escape then refill.

Wasn't that the whole point of the U Boat Atlantic Campaign?

[Westbroek]

Exactly.
And additionally, if the uboot war is going the way it should, it won't be all Das Boot every time you engage the enemy with people screaming and having break downs and crying. (And anyway, if they are, it reflects very poorly on you as their captain).
Calm, methodical and effective is the most satisfying attitude for captain and crew. If you read the accounts of real submariners (Not Bucheim) they didn't have the luxury of emoting their fears and anxieties, and didn't spend time talking about their chances of being killed. It was a science.

[SabreHawk]

Actually if this sim were 100% realistic, it would in fact be THE most boring and arduous sim on the planet. Cause thats how it was for the real boats and their crews, make no mistake about it.
And Das Boot BTW makes this very clear. What was it, uhhhh 56 days at sea and only one convoy, a few planes and DD's all warship and aircraft encounters except for one DD the first one encountered(which he stupidly tried to attack, and their patrol was nearly over because of it.) they did nothing but avoid them. Adn they never even got close to that first convoy due to the DD driving them under.
No they did not do any battles with aircraft what so ever, each time they dove to safety, and on one occasion they nearly bought the farm even so.

Like I said, it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Guys, I don't know what to do with this game anymore. Everything is sooooo boring, I find it really hard to play it anymore. Tried everything to spice it up a bit (mods, 100% realism, attacking Scapa on surface etc), but still... it gets more and more boring and hard to have fun with it.

Today I tried to play again the Western approaches campaign. I have like 5 mission here and for more than 2 hours (for real) I tried to find at least 1 target that can count for any of these missions. So I was zig zag-ing the whole Atlantic and all I found was a group of 5 Dido's that got "stuck" on me in the middle of Atlantic, so I needed to save/reload to shake them down.

So how you guys manage to have fun with this game? Share some tips, anything that can spice up a bit this game.

Pssst! You're playing the wrong game.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Have you tried any of the mods available? If you want a more challenging harbour raiding experience, try one of the AI mods on offer. There are other mods that affect other aspects of gameplay too, so take a browse in the mods section and soon you'll be playing a different game.

Did you actually read his post?

Here, let me help you with the most pertinent part: ..."Tried everything to spice it up a bit (mods, 100% realism, attacking Scapa on surface etc),..."


I beleive he was also referring to the strict scripting of the supposed "Dynamic Campaign" that was adding to his frustration when he wrote: "I tried to find at least 1 target that can count for any of these missions"

I myself have also been frustrated with the very specific mission goals that border on the ridiculously absurd, and which out of necessity lead a player into ignoring perfectly legitimate targets that we would not have hesitated in shooting in previous renditions of SH...all so that we can hunt a very specific battleship or taskforce, in essence 'gaming' the 'game'.

Just last night I passed up a perfectly juicy convoy that I never before would have ignored (nor would any real u-boat captain in his right mind) because it was located a wee bit too close to the outside edge of my scripted patrol zone, and thus I most likely would have received no 'credit' for my efforts. In wartime (and in previous sims) I would have hunted that convoy down to the last ship or torpedo, knowing deep inside that the war materials I was depriving the enemy were more important than sinking another 'capitol ship'...but in this game (as gorgeous as it is) that taste of realism is deprived me.

I keep trying to like this game, but am more and more placed in the same position as the OP when it comes to the concessions made to realism for the sake of the 'game'.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I think is more about a bad campaign design. Just getting out in the middle of nowhere, waiting for months to blow up a ship, is maybe realistic, but not fun. Go there, sink that, refill. So the whole campaign is about to find a large convoy, get into the right position, fire the torpedoes, escape then refill.

Ok...well this is where I cannot agree with you. The U-boat war was exactly like what you describe there at the end. Months of tedium punctuated with moments of terror. It is the rarity that should make those moments so special to the subsimmer.

I cannot defend wanting to turn this into more of a scripted game, as you describe in the second half of your post. Making things more 'exciting' is not what is needed. What you are describing sounds more like the hollywood travesty that is "U-571" as opposed to the classic "Das Boot".

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Placoderm

I beleive he was also referring to the strict scripting of the supposed "Dynamic Campaign" that was adding to his frustration when he wrote: "I tried to find at least 1 target that can count for any of these missions"

I myself have also been frustrated with the very specific mission goals that border on the ridiculously absurd, and which out of necessity lead a player into ignoring perfectly legitimate targets that we would not have hesitated in shooting in previous renditions of SH...all so that we can hunt a very specific battleship or taskforce, in essence 'gaming' the 'game'.

Just last night I passed up a perfectly juicy convoy that I never before would have ignored (nor would any real u-boat captain in his right mind) because it was located a wee bit too close to the outside edge of my scripted patrol zone, and thus I most likely would have received no 'credit' for my efforts. In wartime (and in previous sims) I would have hunted that convoy down to the last ship or torpedo, knowing deep inside that the war materials I was depriving the enemy were more important than sinking another 'capitol ship'...but in this game (as gorgeous as it is) that taste of realism is deprived me.

I keep trying to like this game, but am more and more placed in the same position as the OP when it comes to the concessions made to realism for the sake of the 'game'.

Ok now I understand what the OP was getting at. Wasn't sure if he found SH5 boring or submarine warfare in general. So it is the scripted nature of SH5 that is the problem.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Placoderm

Did you actually read his post?

Here, let me help you with the most pertinent part: ..."Tried everything to spice it up a bit (mods, 100% realism, attacking Scapa on surface etc),..."


I beleive he was also referring to the strict scripting of the supposed "Dynamic Campaign" that was adding to his frustration when he wrote: "I tried to find at least 1 target that can count for any of these missions"

I myself have also been frustrated with the very specific mission goals that border on the ridiculously absurd, and which out of necessity lead a player into ignoring perfectly legitimate targets that we would not have hesitated in shooting in previous renditions of SH...all so that we can hunt a very specific battleship or taskforce, in essence 'gaming' the 'game'.

Just last night I passed up a perfectly juicy convoy that I never before would have ignored (nor would any real u-boat captain in his right mind) because it was located a wee bit too close to the outside edge of my scripted patrol zone, and thus I most likely would have received no 'credit' for my efforts. In wartime (and in previous sims) I would have hunted that convoy down to the last ship or torpedo, knowing deep inside that the war materials I was depriving the enemy were more important than sinking another 'capitol ship'...but in this game (as gorgeous as it is) that taste of realism is deprived me.

I keep trying to like this game, but am more and more placed in the same position as the OP when it comes to the concessions made to realism for the sake of the 'game'.

You are aware that you don't have to complete your objectives, aren't you? You can do what you want, go where you want and sink what you want and the campaign will roll along regardless. It will just play out differently than it would if you completed some, or all, of your objectives.

You cannot hope to win a war without completing the objectives laid out by HQ because you are not in posession of all of the information that they are. However, sucessful captains were rarely shot for not completing theirs.

JCC

I think this is actually a more interesting campaign than the 'Patrol ____ Grid for 24 hours' campaign style.

The only thing I would change (and would be a big addition, the biggest) is to make the war truly dynamic. I'd love to have all tonnage sunk be accumulated, and each month go towards speeding up events that were favorable to the Germans, or delaying events unfavorable to the Germans.

All of the 'ship specific' (sink a carrier, etc) objectives would not be mandatory, but would count significantly more towards the progress of the war than tonnage alone.

Ultimately the "war" inside the campaign might just turn out slightly differently if you are extremely successful. Nothing outside the scope of what difference one single uboat captain could have expected to make, but little changes in the timing of historical events that compound over the course of the campaign.

[Capt_Sluggo]

Nope, it's not for everyone. You have to like the long hunt. For me, that's the real fun.

I got lazy and stayed on the surface charging batteries for several hours straight, not bothering to dive and check hydrophone. During a nasty storm, high seas, wind, rain, low visibility and a long long way from any land. I had just clicked off time compression and gone topside when a task force came charging in at 20+ knots and almost ran me down. Scared me but good! A screen shot would have been fantastic but there was no time to even think.

Rare moments like that are enough to keep me playing.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by John Channing

You are aware that you don't have to complete your objectives, aren't you? You can do what you want, go where you want and sink what you want and the campaign will roll along regardless. It will just play out differently than it would if you completed some, or all, of your objectives.

You cannot hope to win a war without completing the objectives laid out by HQ because you are not in posession of all of the information that they are. However, sucessful captains were rarely shot for not completing theirs.

JCC

Actually, John, I did not know that. I was under the impression that I needed to fulfill those scripted tasks in order to progress in the campaign, or at least earn the renown to upgrade my sub and crew.

I do appreciate your clearing that up for me. Unfortunately, I do not recall any of the being coverd in the horribly short manual, so I thank you.



Of course, now I have to sit here and realize that I let a perfectly gorgeous convoy get away...or more specifically, I ran away from it to avoid detection.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Placoderm

Did you actually read his post?

Here, let me help you with the most pertinent part: ..."Tried everything to spice it up a bit (mods, 100% realism, attacking Scapa on surface etc),..."

Yes, I did read the actually read his post. I'm just trying to help the guy out, so please don't be so negative about it, like I did something bad.

If he has tried all of the mods and still finds that attacking in Scapa Flow on the surface has not been 'spiced up' then, either, he hasn't tried all the mods or he hasn't installed all the mods properly. So, I was trying to be helpful.

If I were to read and take his post as literal then:

So how you guys manage to have fun with this game? Share some tips, anything that can spice up a bit this game.

Wouldn't make any sense would it? I mean, if he has literally tried everything, then what could we possibly suggest, other than to try something again. So, I took it that he hadn't really tried everything, or every mod and was trying to point him in the right direction, but I suppose a thread like this couldn't last five minutes without some negative outpouring at some point.

I see you have managed to respond to a thread asking 'how do I make this game more exciting' with a post pointing out all the things in the game that you personally don't like, but not one single positive suggestion. This forums isn't just about what you don't like about the game, it's about trying to help others out as well, if you can.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by IanC

Ok now I understand what the OP was getting at. Wasn't sure if he found SH5 boring or submarine warfare in general. So it is the scripted nature of SH5 that is the problem.

Actually, after reading his later post, it is I who may have been mistaken. I was under the impression that he was wanting a more historical challenge...but his later post about a more 'exciting' mission that I referred to in my later post made it pretty clear that it was the lack of scripted excitement and not the lack of historical accuracy that he was wanting.

In any case, I am so confused now that I am best to just slink off into the darkness and admit my own failure at comprehension, right or wrong or somewhere in-between.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Placoderm

In any case, I am so confused now that I am best to just slink off into the darkness and admit my own failure at comprehension, right or wrong or somewhere in-between.

it's all good. The whole thread is a little confusing, including the title.