Manual targeting in 100% realism.

[Paul Riley]

Originally Posted by geosub1978

Bearing rate is the change of bearing for given time. This means in 3minutes the target traveled from 320 to 323. So the bearing rate = 323-320/3min = 3degrees/3minutes=1degree/minute. For the function above, you have to use yards-knots-deg/minute.

It is bearing rate actually that is calculated by the stopwatch in order to give the speed of the target. Of course, the bearing rate changes so you have to keep no more than 3minutes for calculation. Furthermore, the greater the bearing change (great AoB, high speed) the more accurate the bearing rate is.

Ahh,he wanted to know how bearing is calculated,I thought he wanted to actually know what bearing WAS

[Paul Riley]

One thing that always got me curious was,why was 3 mins 15 secs used to calculate speed?,why the 3 mins and why the 15 secs? I mean 3 mins is hardly a reliable way to determine a ship's speed.
I much prefer the fixed line method of watching the target and matching speed accordingly,usually for between 15-30mins
I even read somewhere that skilled commanders could estimate speed based on the rate smoke came out of the funnel and the turbulence of the ship's wake,at least to determine whether it was slow,med,fast that is.

Thanks.

[flag4]

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

One thing that always got me curious was,why was 3 mins 15 secs used to calculate speed?,why the 3 mins and why the 15 secs? I mean 3 mins is hardly a reliable way to determine a ship's speed.
I much prefer the fixed line method of watching the target and matching speed accordingly,usually for between 15-30mins
I even read somewhere that skilled commanders could estimate speed based on the rate smoke came out of the funnel and the turbulence of the ship's wake,at least to determine whether it was slow,med,fast that is.

Thanks.

Jesus, P.Riley, you know your stuff!!

[maillemaker]

I'm confused how range does not matter for other-than-90-degree-to-track shots?

how to do that without drawing course on map?? how can i know that iam perfect 90 not 93 for example??

You don't have to have a perfect 90 to track. The closer the better, of course.

I always draw the track of the target ship as one of the first things I do. Since I have map updates on it is trivial as I just zoom up on the ship until I can see the shape of the ship and then draw a line through it.

Are you pressing "pause" during your mathematic operations ?

I don't. With fixed-wire it's all done very quickly. Usually I have time to kill waiting for the target to cross my 000 gyro.

Steve

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

You don't have to have a perfect 90 to track. The closer the better, of course.

I always draw the track of the target ship as one of the first things I do. Since I have map updates on it is trivial as I just zoom up on the ship until I can see the shape of the ship and then draw a line through it.

Thanks for replay

I have "gods eye" off so i must measure distance to target twice using periscope and then i can draw target course, everything is all right when sea is calm but when storm came up its almost impossible to do... and i cant hit anything. When i have correct two distance "points" and betwen them i got 3min 15sec brake the rest its piece of cake

I must try that Fast 90 method!

[Hitman]

I'm confused how range does not matter for other-than-90-degree-to-track shots?

Because of the convergence: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121744

[Hitman]

I even read somewhere that skilled commanders could estimate speed based on the rate smoke came out of the funnel and the turbulence of the ship's wake,at least to determine whether it was slow,med,fast that is.

With some practice you can do that also in SH3. Telling of a merchant ship is going slow, medium or fast is not difficult, and you will rarely miss by more than 1-2 knots. The trick is to know how the bow wake looks like, and differentiate three status: Low, medium, high wake. The first one appears with speeds from 2 to 4 knots, the second from 5 to 7 and the third one from 8 onwards. Thus if you set as enemy speed value respectively 3,6 and 9 knots, you will rarely miss if you are close enough. Only rarely a merchant ship in SH3 is going at more than 10 knots, it must be an Ocean liner or fast troop transport -and those you will recognize easily-

[geosub1978]

Why range is not necessary, I think I explained it on the previous posts, take a more in depth look and you will see that it is clear.

The formula to calculate speed from bow spray is 4/3XsqrH, where H is the distance between the peaks of the TWO created bow waves. There are always TWO bow waves. One around the bow and a second after that, depending on speed. The greater the speed the greater the distance. For fast small craft the second wave is created at the stern of the boat. I don't think these are implemented in the game. There is also a method to measure the speed from hydrophone, by measuring the beats of the propeller and multiplying with TPK of the ship. This was moded in the game a long long time ago for the stock ships. It was cool but unfortunately it was not developed any further.

Guys I think you have misunderstand the phylosophy of approach and attack. The aim of the fire control team is to collect the data from various sensors and plotting, they announce them to the captain and the captain desides which coarse-speed-range will be used for the attack. That's why the theory one torpedo - one ship was used only from top attacker like Kretchmer. The others kept on shooting spreads in order to compensate inaccurancies. That's why Mush Morton was critisised after his third patrol when he shot some 10 torpedoed to 10 ships all missed and the Command accused him for not using spreads.

So, I would suggest to keep on tracking the target, measure the speed with stop watch and any other method you want, deside a FINAL speed and set it.

Finally the 3minutes comes from the periscope observations. These take place every 3 minutes in order to reduce exposure. For synchronization, data from the other sensors are collected also every 3 minutes at the same time. For the 15seconds, I have no idea.

[geosub1978]

To end it up once and for all and I think, everyone will agree.

For straight shots (up to 20deg gyro) the range doesn't have anything to do with the desired Firing Angle=Deflection Angle=DA.

TorpSpeed x sinusDA = TargetSpeed x sinus AoB. See, no range!
These are a fact nomatter if the impact angle is 90degrees (vertical shot) or 10degrees (down throat).

Now, a curved shot gyro>20-25 is another thing, like Hitman describes!
I remind you that BARHAM was sunk with 90deg left gyro angle!!!

P.S. see this
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=145921

[Paul Riley]

Originally Posted by flag4

Jesus, P.Riley, you know your stuff!!

Trust me,there are an elite few in here that would make me look amateur
We all get better in time,and YOU will if you stick at it.
Thanks for your compliment by the way

[Chisum]

Hum...
Sorry mates, but what must I do about it ?

[Paul Riley]

Originally Posted by Hitman

With some practice you can do that also in SH3. Telling of a merchant ship is going slow, medium or fast is not difficult, and you will rarely miss by more than 1-2 knots. The trick is to know how the bow wake looks like, and differentiate three status: Low, medium, high wake. The first one appears with speeds from 2 to 4 knots, the second from 5 to 7 and the third one from 8 onwards. Thus if you set as enemy speed value respectively 3,6 and 9 knots, you will rarely miss if you are close enough. Only rarely a merchant ship in SH3 is going at more than 10 knots, it must be an Ocean liner or fast troop transport -and those you will recognize easily-

Nice tips

[flag4]

Originally Posted by Chisum

Hum...
Sorry mates, but what must I do about it ?

enabling the mod *may* well screw-up those in the box: it may cause conflict = crashes, problems, unstable game etc.

you have to chose.

...i think i'm right. i have had the same a few times and went ahead only to discover problems later in the game; for example my SH3 CTD'd.

so now i dont bother and try to find a mod configuration that works.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by Hitman

The trick is to know how the bow wake looks like, and differentiate three status: Low, medium, high wake. The first one appears with speeds from 2 to 4 knots, the second from 5 to 7 and the third one from 8 onwards.

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Nice tips

Seconded.
Very useful Hitman.
I've only just started playing with contacts off, so I'll start looking out for this.
Thanks

[Didd]

Paul,

One thing that always got me curious was,why was 3 mins 15 secs used to calculate speed?,why the 3 mins and why the 15 secs? I mean 3 mins is hardly a reliable way to determine a ship's speed.

The reason for this is that to convert Km/s to Knots you multiply by 1942.8. Therefore in 195 seconds (3 min 15s), 1942.8/195 is 10. Therefore distance travelled in Km * 10 in 195s gives speed in Kt.

Didd