The proposed health care bill thread (merged) - Page 70

03-25-10, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Most Finnish news and other media come unfiltered from some US source. We don't have our own media, everything is fed to us from the US media conglomerates.

I hope you're kidding.
That's like watching / hearing / reading science fiction.

Aramike · 03-25-10, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I don't get it, why wait until 2014 for the free insurance to take effect? What about the next 4 years? What's the point in creating a new law that takes effect after the President leaves office?

Yet, there were certain things that were supposed to take effect immediately, such as pre-existing coverage and raising the age cap on being able to remain under one's parent's plan (even though they snafu'd on one of them).

It seems to me as though they KNEW that most of the bill was unpopular, so they decided to enact the desirable stuff first and hope that the public forgot about who's responsible for the world of hurt yet to come.

Aramike · 03-25-10, 04:48 PM

So now fast food chains must begin putting calorie counts all over their menus due to the healthcare legislation.

Isn't it amazing that what was supposed to be the most transparent Congress in history can cook up a healthcare plan that will cost trillions behind closed doors, but than come out and require COMPLETE transparency for Big Macs?

August · 03-25-10, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Most Finnish news and other media come unfiltered from some US source. We don't have our own media, everything is fed to us from the US media conglomerates.

Well judging by your posts over the past year OTH i'd have to say that what you're being fed isn't very accurate.

Jimbuna · 03-25-10, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snestorm

I hope you're kidding.
That's like watching / hearing / reading science fiction.

August · 03-25-10, 07:02 PM

The US media isn't a reflection of American society, it tries to be an influence upon it, and I think some Europeans don't really understand this.

SteamWake · 03-25-10, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

The US media isn't a reflection of American society, it tries to be an influence upon it, and I think some Europeans don't really understand this.

Well the enlightned Eu pepole should be. After all they invented it.

GoldenRivet · 03-25-10, 08:05 PM

According to some of the things i have read about this bill...

it is a very real possibility that i will be in prison in about 4 years

If these liberals wanted European health care so effin bad they should have moved to Europe

Skybird · 03-26-10, 03:53 AM

I read that not just a few, but many representatives receive threats of assassination, and letters teling them that snipers had been send out to kill their children, and that many have asked for police protection.

Several Republicans have been accused to have helped to heat up things like this. I only remind of Palin and her death camps, or claims over alleged euthanasia as a result of this bill.

Here borderlines get crossed, with friendly assistance from some who accept even means like this if they think it helps themselves to reclaim power.

If anything, this shows how totally hysteric, irrational, disconnected from reality the debate has become.

I always had the strong impression from the history books that the more serious political scandals and the more hurtful political crimes in america in the past century, after WWII, has come from the Republican camp's direction. While the Democrats also had scandals, none of them can compete with the severity of Watergate, Irangate, Iraq 2003. The extremely hate-filled climate created by Republicans even long before the bill became a hot issue, already during the election campaign, maybe one day also will be mentioned in one breath with these, due to the rifts (created by Bush) beeing deepened to an degree that I currently cannot see how this rift in American society could ever be healed again within the next generation. How could that be possible if the right, whenever it weeps for its lost powers, runs a policy of scorched earth?

I am no Obama fan, and have said that repeatedly very clearly. I was sceptic about him from the beginning, nevertheless I gave him a chance to show his line, and I got dissapointed, mainly referring to foreign policy.

But what is happening now, again is too much.

Edit:
I also remind of one thing. There are people, a majority of around 60% they say, that are against the reform. But the camp of these is split. There is a majority in this camp that is against the reform in principle. But there also is a minority in this camp that is against this reform because it is not radical enough, thus opposing it for a dcompßletely different reason. I really wonder if there really is a majority in society being against the reform in principle.

August · 03-26-10, 07:44 AM

Again we have foreigners thinking what they see on TV is the unvarnished reality.

What they don't seem to realize or care is that politicians receive thousands of messages from constituents and other concerned Americans every week. The one or two obscene or threatening messages they get are the ones the media reports, effectively making a mountain out of a mole hill in order to marginalize the political opposition. Remember that our media plays favorites.

So stop believing the hype. Have any of you actually heard these threats? How do you know they aren't just made up by a pol trying to gain sympathy? Why are you such suckers? And have you heard about my super duper American bridge and monument sale?

AVGWarhawk · 03-26-10, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

So now fast food chains must begin putting calorie counts all over their menus due to the healthcare legislation.

Isn't it amazing that what was supposed to be the most transparent Congress in history can cook up a healthcare plan that will cost trillions behind closed doors, but than come out and require COMPLETE transparency for Big Macs?

A lot have already provided a list of calories for each product sold. McD has done so for quite sometime. Most have done that on their own dime. Subway, McD, Friendly's etc.

AVGWarhawk · 03-26-10, 07:59 AM

Quote:

I read that not just a few, but many representatives receive threats of assassination, and letters teling them that snipers had been send out to kill their children, and that many have asked for police protection.

True. Some are just out of control. However, Congress wiping their arse with the Constitution would draw some unwanted attention.

Quote:

Several Republicans have been accused to have helped to heat up things like this. I only remind of Palin and her death camps, or claims over alleged euthanasia as a result of this bill.

Yes sir, let the Dems use this as a politcal ploy. Sorry to say several Repubs got threats also. The Dems have not been singled out nor have the Repub instigated these threats. A lot of folks say Palin is a twit...why listen to her know? The Palin assumption is far fetched.

Quote:

Here borderlines get crossed, with friendly assistance from some who accept even means like this if they think it helps themselves to reclaim power.

If anything, this shows how totally hysteric, irrational, disconnected from reality the debate has become.

No, what it shows is complete disregard for what America wants. It shows complete disregard for the Constitution and broad definitions of what the Constitution means. What it means is Congress made up rules as they went along to make historic legislation and get into the history books.

Quote:

I always had the strong impression from the history books that the more serious political scandals and the more hurtful political crimes in america in the past century, after WWII, has come from the Republican camp's direction. While the Democrats also had scandals, none of them can compete with the severity of Watergate, Irangate, Iraq 2003. The extremely hate-filled climate created by Republicans even long before the bill became a hot issue, already during the election campaign, maybe one day also will be mentioned in one breath with these, due to the rifts (created by Bush) beeing deepened to an degree that I currently cannot see how this rift in American society could ever be healed again within the next generation. How could that be possible if the right, whenever it weeps for its lost powers, runs a policy of scorched earth?

Thats a good one....read up on all the Clinton-gates....odd trails of dead bodies and papers found in trunks of cars at the junkyard.

http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Scandals.htm

Quote:

I am no Obama fan, and have said that repeatedly very clearly. I was sceptic about him from the beginning, nevertheless I gave him a chance to show his line, and I got dissapointed, mainly referring to foreign policy.

He has no foreign policy. However he likes to keep the eye on the ball in Afghanistan!

Quote:

But what is happening now, again is too much.

Agreed....know you understand the threats maybe?

Quote:

Edit:
I also remind of one thing. There are people, a majority of around 60% they say, that are against the reform. But the camp of these is split. There is a majority in this camp that is against the reform in principle. But there also is a minority in this camp that is against this reform because it is not radical enough, thus opposing it for a dcompßletely different reason. I really wonder if there really is a majority in society being against the reform in principle.

I do not believe the majority is against it. What I believe is the method of operation to obtain this legislation is part of reason some are against it...ie. making back door deals for abortion. Wiping their arse with the Constitution. Completely ignoring the public outcry. WTH did they expect from the public when promises are broken and the peachy keen squeeky clean Obama made promises our checkbooks can not write. Reform needs to take place...throwing trillions at it will not create reform. Reform needs to start at the root cause.... Why is healthcare so expensive and what can be done to reduce these costs? That is the ultimate question that requires an answer before trillions are thrown in for good measure.

SteamWake · 03-26-10, 08:53 AM

The CBO report is out....

Read it and weep.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-to-90-of-gdp/

AVGWarhawk · 03-26-10, 09:01 AM

Print more money!!!

Down the crapper!

Capt. Teach · 03-26-10, 03:11 PM

This is a very interesting thread.

I wish I had enough factual knowledge to get involved with the discussion but sadly, I don't.

I can comment on what I have read though ... although Ill keep most of that to myself.

I find it interesting that a lot of our european brothers have what seems to be rather strong opinions about a healthcare system that has nothing to do with them. Although, as an American I recognize and will fight for their right to state it [regardless of content] within my country. To head off any future comments, no I'm not an isolationist. However, please take into consideration that the number of people we deal with is far beyond what you deal with. [ Example: Norway approx population 4.858 million? (Jan 2010 http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/01/) Compare that to one state ... say California 36.756 million (2008 estimate US Census bureau. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html)] So, I think it somewhat safe to say that passing something in Norway is not unlike getting something passed in the city of Los Angeles ( 2006 estimate http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0644000.html ) I think that you might not be considering that a sweeping change that involves our entire country has the potential of causing a lot more grief than a sweeping change that involves your entire country.

I will however make one statement that is my own belief. It's something I fight for all the time. I believe in freedom of choice. When someone, anyone, comes into my life or the lives of others and states "There is no choice, this is how it will be." then yes, they get my full attention. If it radically limits freedom of choice ... then I am against it and how "good it is" no longer becomes an issue. Why? Because a precident has been established and you can now expect further limitations in the future.

Simply stated, I don't like being force-fed by anyone.

03-25-10, 07:02 PM	#1041
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,258 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The US media isn't a reflection of American society, it tries to be an influence upon it, and I think some Europeans don't really understand this. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-25-10, 08:05 PM	#1043
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,729 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	According to some of the things i have read about this bill... it is a very real possibility that i will be in prison in about 4 years If these liberals wanted European health care so effin bad they should have moved to Europe __________________

03-26-10, 03:53 AM	#1044
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,831 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I read that not just a few, but many representatives receive threats of assassination, and letters teling them that snipers had been send out to kill their children, and that many have asked for police protection. Several Republicans have been accused to have helped to heat up things like this. I only remind of Palin and her death camps, or claims over alleged euthanasia as a result of this bill. Here borderlines get crossed, with friendly assistance from some who accept even means like this if they think it helps themselves to reclaim power. If anything, this shows how totally hysteric, irrational, disconnected from reality the debate has become. I always had the strong impression from the history books that the more serious political scandals and the more hurtful political crimes in america in the past century, after WWII, has come from the Republican camp's direction. While the Democrats also had scandals, none of them can compete with the severity of Watergate, Irangate, Iraq 2003. The extremely hate-filled climate created by Republicans even long before the bill became a hot issue, already during the election campaign, maybe one day also will be mentioned in one breath with these, due to the rifts (created by Bush) beeing deepened to an degree that I currently cannot see how this rift in American society could ever be healed again within the next generation. How could that be possible if the right, whenever it weeps for its lost powers, runs a policy of scorched earth? I am no Obama fan, and have said that repeatedly very clearly. I was sceptic about him from the beginning, nevertheless I gave him a chance to show his line, and I got dissapointed, mainly referring to foreign policy. But what is happening now, again is too much. Edit: I also remind of one thing. There are people, a majority of around 60% they say, that are against the reform. But the camp of these is split. There is a majority in this camp that is against the reform in principle. But there also is a minority in this camp that is against this reform because it is not radical enough, thus opposing it for a dcompßletely different reason. I really wonder if there really is a majority in society being against the reform in principle. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-26-10 at 04:04 AM.

03-26-10, 07:44 AM	#1045
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,258 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Again we have foreigners thinking what they see on TV is the unvarnished reality. What they don't seem to realize or care is that politicians receive thousands of messages from constituents and other concerned Americans every week. The one or two obscene or threatening messages they get are the ones the media reports, effectively making a mountain out of a mole hill in order to marginalize the political opposition. Remember that our media plays favorites. So stop believing the hype. Have any of you actually heard these threats? How do you know they aren't just made up by a pol trying to gain sympathy? Why are you such suckers? And have you heard about my super duper American bridge and monument sale? __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-26-10, 08:53 AM	#1048
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The CBO report is out.... Read it and weep. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-to-90-of-gdp/ __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-25-10, 04:48 PM	#1038
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	So now fast food chains must begin putting calorie counts all over their menus due to the healthcare legislation. Isn't it amazing that what was supposed to be the most transparent Congress in history can cook up a healthcare plan that will cost trillions behind closed doors, but than come out and require COMPLETE transparency for Big Macs?

03-26-10, 09:01 AM	#1049
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,305 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Print more money!!! Down the crapper! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-26-10, 03:11 PM	#1050
Capt. Teach Gunner Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: U-64, Generally Posts: 94 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 1	This is a very interesting thread. I wish I had enough factual knowledge to get involved with the discussion but sadly, I don't. I can comment on what I have read though ... although Ill keep most of that to myself. I find it interesting that a lot of our european brothers have what seems to be rather strong opinions about a healthcare system that has nothing to do with them. Although, as an American I recognize and will fight for their right to state it [regardless of content] within my country. To head off any future comments, no I'm not an isolationist. However, please take into consideration that the number of people we deal with is far beyond what you deal with. [ Example: Norway approx population 4.858 million? (Jan 2010 http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/01/) Compare that to one state ... say California 36.756 million (2008 estimate US Census bureau. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html)] So, I think it somewhat safe to say that passing something in Norway is not unlike getting something passed in the *city* of Los Angeles ( 2006 estimate http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0644000.html ) I think that you might not be considering that a sweeping change that involves our entire country has the potential of causing a lot more grief than a sweeping change that involves your entire country. I will however make one statement that is my own belief. It's something I fight for all the time. I believe in freedom of choice. When someone, anyone, comes into my life or the lives of others and states "There is no choice, this is how it will be." then yes, they get my full attention. If it radically limits freedom of choice ... then I am against it and how "good it is" no longer becomes an issue. Why? Because a precident has been established and you can now expect further limitations in the future. Simply stated, I don't like being force-fed by anyone. __________________ Death? I'm not afraid of death, its the last few seconds of life that scare the hell out of me. Last edited by Capt. Teach; 03-26-10 at 04:13 PM.