Ubisoft Masterserver down? (merged)

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

I just tried this.
So you have to jump trough multiple hoops AND give UBI your personal Data (at least Date of Birth, Full Name, Mail Adress, ZIP Code) AND pay for shipping to return a product where you don't agree with the EULA. Really smooth. Puts all the work on the customer, none of the costs on UBI.

In Italy, Germany and others EU countries as well the so called "vexatory clauses" are conteplated as possible reason to declare a contract void in courts.

Basically if you insert in the contract conditions that go against recognized rights or that requires out of the ordinary efforts to be met, the contract is null. What you describe certainly meets the criteria.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

I just can't see 'hackers' being this determined.

Give it a month or two they will finally get tired of it and move on to their next target.

BTW I dont think the majority of the 'hackers' are SH5 fans rather more the Assasin's Creed that and the sheer 'joy' of ruining pepoles day.

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

I just tried this.

1) http://support.ubi.com doesn't load.

2) I have to go trough ubi.com then click support then click trough platforms and games to find the SH5 FAQ.

3) "Ask a question" requires an UBI account.

So you have to jump trough multiple hoops AND give UBI your personal Data (at least Date of Birth, Full Name, Mail Adress, ZIP Code) AND pay for shipping to return a product where you don't agree with the EULA. Really smooth. Puts all the work on the customer, none of the costs on UBI.

SAdly, companies are able to act in direct conflict with every principle of quality customer relations because we, as customers, are so 'addicted' to their products we are no longer prepared to stand up to them.

I wrote a fairly lengthy piece on this stuff - it relates to what I do professionally - in the Empire: Total War threads at TWCenter, but won't do it here (doubt people are interested).

I will say it's the reason why I have not purchased SH5.

Ubi has crossed a line from which there is no return as far as I am concerned. If ALL publishers started doing this, and that meant I never bought another PC game, then so be it.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

SAdly, companies are able to act in direct conflict with every principle of quality customer relations because we, as customers, are so 'addicted' to their products we are no longer prepared to stand up to them.

I wrote a fairly lengthy piece on this stuff - it relates to what I do professionally - in the Empire: Total War threads at TWCenter, but won't do it here (doubt people are interested).

I will say it's the reason why I have not purchased SH5.

Ubi has crossed a line from which there is no return as far as I am concerned. If ALL publishers started doing this, and that meant I never bought another PC game, then so be it.

I've been saying it for a long time, it's a serious long term mistake to gobble up whatever they throw at us.

[RSColonel_131st]

Agree with both of you. It seems no matter how much you warn and inform people about potential (or in this case, very real) problems with corporate decisions affecting future of our gaming, there are always enough who buy on the first day, bugs and all included.

That's why it irks me to see that even Neal - as the voice of one of the largest Naval Game websites in the world - has not even seen worth to mention the repeated problems with this DRM in his review.

Obviously, people really don't care and are happy to pay 50$ for being annoyed and having their customer rights taken away one by one. I'm slowly giving up hope that this will ever change.

[Bilge_Rat]

I'm not sure if I understand the issue anymore. Ubi has been upfront about DRM and the internet requirement. No one is forced to buy the game. Ubi will give you a full refund if you don't agree with the EULA. Most people who have had problems or are unhappy with the game have been able to return to the retailer they bought it from for a refund (according to the posts I read here), so what is the problem?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

I'm not sure if I understand the issue anymore. Ubi has been upfront about DRM and the internet requirement. No one is forced to buy the game. Ubi will give you a full refund if you don't agree with the EULA. Most people who have had problems or are unhappy with the game have been able to return to the retailer they bought it from for a refund (according to the posts I read here), so what is the problem?

How about the Download customers ? STEAM for example ?

[RSColonel_131st]

The problem is companies selling games that don't work, trying to gloss over the problems. And then the customer has to jump trough hoops, even register personal data, to get his money refunded (either at the local store or online).

We can leave the DRM out of it. If the game crashed randomly or refused to load due to a bug in DirectX9 graphic implementation, it would be the very same result.

Do you think we are wrong for expecting software to work as advertised? Simple saying "if it doesn't you can return it" is only half the story if returning means hassle for a customer who bought the software in good faith and trust towards the publisher.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by msxyz

In Italy, Germany and others EU countries as well the so called "vexatory clauses" are conteplated as possible reason to declare a contract void in courts.

Basically if you insert in the contract conditions that go against recognized rights or that requires out of the ordinary efforts to be met, the contract is null. What you describe certainly meets the criteria.

That goes for the US also, pretty sure.

Companies can't just make up whatever rules they want and expect it to hold up in court if it goes against a previous court decision or law.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

The problem is companies selling games that don't work, trying to gloss over the problems. And then the customer has to jump trough hoops, even register personal data, to get his money refunded (either at the local store or online).

We can leave the DRM out of it. If the game crashed randomly or refused to load due to a bug in DirectX9 graphic implementation, it would be the very same result.

Do you think we are wrong for expecting software to work as advertised? Simple saying "if it doesn't you can return it" is only half the story if returning means hassle for a customer who bought the software in good faith and trust towards the publisher.

Absolutely not, that is how the system is supposed to work. You buy a product which does not work as advertised or is faulty, you should be allowed to return it for a refund. It works like that for most products.

However, for any product you return, there is always some effort required to prove you bought the product and actually deliver it to the retailer. It works like that for any product. Ubisoft is not adding any unusual conditions here.

I also think Steam and D2D should be held to the same standard.

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

However, for any product you return, there is always some effort required to prove you bought the product and actually deliver it to the retailer. It works like that for any product. Ubisoft is not adding any unusual conditions here.

If I buy a 20USD Hair Dryer at Walmart (or whatever your local equivalent is to my all-round shop here), I can return it if it doesn't work, simple as that, in person, and walk out the door with 20USD in cash.

If I buy a 50USD Game at Walmart, I have to provide UBI with my personal data, register an account, ask them to kindly give me an RMA and then pay for the postage to return the item. I haven't figured out how they would actually pay the cash - direct bank transaction, paypal, no clue what other effort there might be. In any way they get a lot more personal data than should be required, and I'm not sure they will refund shipment.

I would clearly argue that these are some "unusual conditions" alright.

Besides, we could all follow your advice and simple return/don't buy. I mean, I'm doing that. But how is that going to improve the quality of software releases or the stability of OSP?


Oh, and another thing: The EULA quoted so far covers disagreement with the EULA (30 days return right unless installed) and defective disk (90 day return right). But doesn't the EULA also say that any technical problems with the actually installed game are not covery by UBI responsibility? So I'm not even sure you could return it to UBI as "damaged disk" if the physical disk is fine but the OSP has been down for the entire weekend. And since you already had it installed to find that out, you can't revert on the EULA either.

[guynoir]

I'm sorry... I don't really have anything to add to this serious and informative discussion, but has anyone else seen this yet?

[IanC]

Originally Posted by guynoir

I'm sorry... I don't really have anything to add to this serious and informative discussion, but has anyone else seen this yet?

That one is fast becoming a classic

[Soundman]

Well, I guess I'm one of those who was waiting to see how this would turn out and I'm glad I did. Now after reading this my mind is made up. I WILL NOT BUY THIS GAME WITH DRM !!

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

If I buy a 20USD Hair Dryer at Walmart (or whatever your local equivalent is to my all-round shop here), I can return it if it doesn't work, simple as that, in person, and walk out the door with 20USD in cash.

If I buy a 50USD Game at Walmart, I have to provide UBI with my personal data, register an account, ask them to kindly give me an RMA and then pay for the postage to return the item. I haven't figured out how they would actually pay the cash - direct bank transaction, paypal, no clue what other effort there might be. In any way they get a lot more personal data than should be required, and I'm not sure they will refund shipment.

I would clearly argue that these are some "unusual conditions" alright.

Besides, we could all follow your advice and simple return/don't buy. I mean, I'm doing that. But how is that going to improve the quality of software releases or the stability of OSP?


Oh, and another thing: The EULA quoted so far covers disagreement with the EULA (30 days return right unless installed) and defective disk (90 day return right). But doesn't the EULA also say that any technical problems with the actually installed game are not covery by UBI responsibility? So I'm not even sure you could return it to UBI as "damaged disk" if the physical disk is fine but the OSP has been down for the entire weekend. And since you already had it installed to find that out, you can't revert on the EULA either.

from what I can see, the info Ubi asks for, name and address, is required so they can mail you a cheque. How is that unusual or intrusive?

secondly, if you bought it from Walmart, why don't you just return there?

I am not trying to defend Ubi, but I don't see how their return policy differs from that of any other software publisher out there.