Eraser goes through german UBI Forum...

[JU_88]

Wow I dont think even the mighty EA has stooped this low before.
Talk about sidesteping a few pot holes only to fall off a bridge...

[czarnaszabla]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Wow I dont think even the mighty EA has stooped this low before.
Talk about sidesteping a few pot holes only to fall off a bridge...

holy crap! where in the world did you find a bridge high enough to even compare with the chasm that ubisoft's brain has taken a plunge into?


On topic though - it's not about the annoyance or wether or not it works. It's a question of principle.

The game is a product - like an tomato. Once i buy it, it's mine. I can make a sandwich, or some soup. I can forget about i until it rots, or give it to my guinea pig (brushie loves tomatoes for some reason and makes a hell of a ruckus at 7 am until he gets his tomato). None of the seller's buisness.

It's the seller's buisness to make sure i don't walk off with the tomato without paying, and in case of games, which are data (and unlike tomatoes can be copied), that people who haven't paid for the game can't play their own copy (i still see nothing wrong with lending my game to my cousins). Enter cd-keys etcetera.

But as i said, games are a product. A product is, by definition, finished, and CANNOT require any additional commitments. Now multiplayer modes, patches - that's not a product. That's a service. A service like access to the gaming network might (and is expected to) have some additional requirements - from an internet connection, through an account to a subscription fee. But in this case - we are required to have an internet connection in exchange for some additional funcionality.

Take closed battlenet in diablo2 for example. The character you create there is only available via internet. From any computer, but that's like taking a flash drive copy of the save file with you - merely a convenience resulting from the fect, that you cannot, in fact, make a flash drive copy of the save. And you have to keep actively playing the game, or the character gets deleted - it's blizzard server space you're using. But in return for this, you get to play the character online (also possible with the regular single player char), with a guarantee of very few (if any) cheaters around. That's the service closed BN is providing.


To that end - even World of Wrcraft, which is an MMORPG, does nor REQUIRE internet. You can install it just fine, even run it. You won't be able to play ofcourse, because access to the server is a service, but Blizz claims no right to the discs i have bought.




It is quite logical, that the games have technical requirements - if you want nice colors, you should have a color monitor (duh!), and if you want to play over the internet, you must have internet (surprise!). But in the case of SHV, internet does not provide any additional funcionality - the single player game has nothing to do with internet - there are no other player-controlled subs to run into, no multiplayer aspect, so why the hell should i stay online? To keep telling you that i have a legal copy? I did that once already, when i installed the game and entered the cd-key.

Seriously Ubisoft - thank god you don't sell condoms...

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by czarnaszabla

To that end - even World of Wrcraft, which is an MMORPG, does nor REQUIRE internet. You can install it just fine, even run it. You won't be able to play ofcourse, because access to the server is a service, but Blizz claims no right to the discs i have bought.

I think you will find that blizzard does claim their rights to world of warcraft.

THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE GAME (DEFINED BELOW), YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME. IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY CALL (800)757-7707 TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE.

From world of warcraft EULA.

[czarnaszabla]

actually - no. This is due to the fact, that the EULA makes private WoW servers illegal. Hence, the provision that you may not use the game unless you are going to play it like it was intended - using paid blizzard servers.

But i may have misstated something:

the actual game discs, are a product. What i do with them after purchase, is my of buisness, as long as i don't break the law. To that end, every software contains an EULA, which has the user agree that he will not pirate the software or it's impossible to install.

But the software contained on the WoW game discs is a client (and therefore a service, not a product), and it's use is contingent on follwing the terms of service.


edit:

@ Yak - actually, WoW is not given away for free, but the one-time fee for the game and expansions determines your level of access - without buying the Burning Crusade, you can't get past level 60 or reach certain zones. But you are not required to buy it to play.

Nowhere though, is it stated that after installing WoW i MUST play it, or pay the subscription fee - i can even cancel my subscription and i'm not reqired to buy a new client to reactivate my account.

[Yak]

The big difference with WoW and othe MMORPG's is that they're usually given away for free, and the only thing you pay for is the right to play it on their server.

If you don't want to play it anymore, you don't pay for it.

Here you buy something, that you must be online for to play it, and without it, you've got a $90 USD coaster. If for some technical reasons you can't play it, you're still out of pocket.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Yak

The big difference with WoW and othe MMORPG's is that they're usually given away for free, and the only thing you pay for is the right to play it on their server.

I must have missed the freebies

I payed $100 for World of warcraft

I payed $70 for WOW BC addon

and I payed $70 for WOW WotLK

then i have to pay $50 every 60 days

not what i would call free.

But yeah i agree that for a single player game you shouldnt have to be online.

But you still dont own any software you've bought, wether it has DRM or not.

[czarnaszabla]

that's a lot of money - the WoW monthly subscription is only 13 euro, not 50 bucks, unless you have more than one account.


And i agree with the last bit - since software is data, it is sold under the provision of a contract (the eula), which prohibits piracy, reverse engineering, and the like - that's called intellectual property.

but talk about MY intellectual property.

If these companies think they have the right to inspect everything i do on my pc "just to make sure" i'm not doing anything they might not like - that's an intrusion into my privacy, and i'm with the hackers here.


Sure - you can chalki it up as yet another system requirement, but there is a line somwhere. A system requirement to USE the software most either have something to do tith the way the software works, or it must not exist.

Companies ask to upgrade your hardware, because as the graphics develop, and computers become more powerful, they want to take advantage of that by making the visuals more stunning, and the game code more complex, so the system specs must be high enough to cope with that.

Like i said - u want shiny colors, then you can't use a black&white monitor and wonder why the colors aren't displayed.

You want to play over the internet - have some internet.

You want to download a 3GB content patch for WoW - make sure you have those 3GB free on your drive.

Technical requirements are fine.




"this game offers no multiplayer and nothing is gained from being connected to the internet, but you will have to be connected anyway or we won't let you play the game" is not.

[jwilliams]

Yeah us New Zealander's get ripped off.

As you can see from link below, its $50 for 60 days
http://www.ebgames.co.nz/pc/product....=productsearch

And i agree with you, that software companies are going too far with this DRM stuff.

And the only way to make them see this is to not buy their products.... if it sells they wont change it.

[Wolfehunter]

ubi isn't alone in this. Bethesda has done this many times too. I'm not surprised.. Ubi is evil I tell ya... hehehe the darkside is strong with them..

[Yak]

I got a copy of WoW for free from EB with a purchase, didn't have any of the expansions or anything, but the initial install disc was free.

Same with that Age of Conan game, free too.

I just don't play RPG's generally.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Yak

I got a copy of WoW for free from EB with a purchase, didn't have any of the expansions or anything, but the initial install disc was free.

Same with that Age of Conan game, free too.

I just don't play RPG's generally.

I believe what you got was the 10 day free trial disk. Which comes on 1 disk. Here in NZ that disk is sold for $5 (Stores prob trying to make money from something they got for free)

The actual WOW game is on 4 disks with a 208 page manual.

the prices i paid are release day prices.

Unfortuently i know longer play WOW due to them making it too easy (complants from casual gamers saying it was too hard, so they patched it making it easy).

back on subject :-

Ubisoft forums deleted my post

all i said was "I dont like how you cant save if you lost connection from Ubisoft servers. Whos stupid idea was that?" and today its gone.