The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[jokerl90]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Refuted.



This is the most insightful, factful, and well-researched article about PC games and piracy around, by noted tech author Koroush Ghazi:

PC Game Piracy Examined

Hopefully there are some here who have long enough attention spans to read this all the way through without resorting to a session of HALO. It covers Steam, Starforce, the disparity between PC and console sales, and more. You can learn a lot from it. Hopefully you can learn to stop parroting the same stuff you heard from everyone else.

Koroush Ghazi is the one person on the internet in who I trust absolutely. If he says it, I believe it. If he gives advise on something, I take it. I look in on his site every day. I remember when he wrote this, I never really read it because I'm not at all interested the issue of piracy, until now.
While I don't agree with the way ubisoft is going with this, I just got a reminder that there are two sides to any issue.

[Seafireliv]

I like the way Stalker Call of Pripyat did it. No Activation except a code, but those who so love Steam can have a Steam version- everyone`s happy. Stalker just got my £30... SHV just got thin air. You can`t beat Options.

What the? My Avatar turned into Popeye? o....k...

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by jokerl90

While I don't agree with the way ubisoft is going with this, I just got a reminder that there are two sides to any issue.

I think there are many more than 3 sides to this issue and I can think of four off the top of my head. Most of them with conflicting priorities and aims.

But that's life in general.

[Seafireliv]

The only side we should be concerned with is the CUSTOMER side. Let UBI business men and women be concerned with THEIR greedy side and bonuses. Do you guys think they`re considering our side? All they`re thinking about is lining their pockets. they`ll only consider the customer side if the customer doesn`t buy. Get with reality.

It`s a battle. If UBI win, we`re all worse off. If the customer wins, everyone benefits.

[Fluffysheap]

I have no problem with Internet authorization at startup - I have a couple dozen games on Steam, and Steam does that as a matter of course, not to mention that Windows itself does it. The problem is that games that have intrusive DRM always seem to come with a lot of attributes that are nothing but a big "screw you!" to the customers, and that's assuming the DRM doesn't itself break your computer which does sometimes happen (which I know as a former Starfarce victim).

Originally Posted by jokerl90

Koroush Ghazi is the one person on the internet in who I trust absolutely. If he says it, I believe it. If he gives advise on something, I take it.

If this article is any kind of representative sample you should probably re-evaluate that policy. The article is well written but contains factual errors and some of the links for supporting evidence go to articles which don't provide the claimed evidence. I enjoyed when he cited the fact that the Wikipedia article for SecuROM has a "neutrality disputed" tag as evidence that somehow, this makes SecuROM completely OK. Then there was the time where made an irrelevant (and incorrect) claim that Daemon Tools is a rootkit... immediately followed by a page decrying the straw man argument. I mean, really.

There are also some conclusions which, while not really obviously flawed, I don't agree with. For instance, pretty much everything having to do with Steam. The obvious reason why Steam is popular and other DRM methods are not is that Steam makes the user's life better and other DRM methods make it worse. It has nothing to do with being a Valve fanboy as he surmises (actually I do not even like Counter-Strike).

By tying the game to the user instead of to the computer, the entire nonsense about install limits, activation and validation is rendered irrelevant. Additionally the game can be downloaded as many times as needed onto any computer, and accessed with your password, with no risk of losing or damaging the CD. And Steam can not sell out on launch day. "I am here to pick up my preorder" "Sorry, we have sold out" "What? I have a preorder" "There are no more copies in the store" "OK, I want my money back then" "Sorry, no refunds on preorders". (The manager did eventually give me the refund, at least). Certainly Valve could go bankrupt but I have lost or scratched a CD much more often than Valve has gone out of business, and even if they did, the games would mostly still be playable on the computer on which they are currently installed. I don't even mind occasionally paying more for a Steam game, just because it's worth extra to me to have the game on Steam instead of on a disc!

[Tennesse]

I currently own 7 titles by UBI. I have watch this forum, read multiple articles, and reviews on other sites. I have also read the UBI Uplay forum. I can now saw that as long as Ubi require Uplay or any other form of internet connection required I will no longer purchase their titles and that includes SH5.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by horden

I' have bought all versions of Silent Hunter<SNIP>

Welcome aboard Horden!

Originally Posted by Tennesse

I currently own 7 titles by UBI<SNIP>

Welcome aboard Tennesse!

[horden]

Are we connected Neal ? nothing to say to my message ?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by horden

Are we connected Neal ? nothing to say to my message ?

What can I say? I don't like the DRM either, but I have a wholly different opinion about accepting it in order to stop/delay piracy. I don't want to argue that pirates won't but the game anyway, or all the stock arguements which no one can prove. I have my opinion, and my principles like everyone else. And in 2 weeks, I will be playing the game and discussing it here. You can enjoy SH4, more power to you, it's a great game. I may see you in the SH4 forums when I post there about my Pacific adventures.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Crack proof games would be great, because they'd have one less excuse for poor sales figures. There have been lots of number flying around - 10 pirate copies to one legitimate one springs to mind, but that may have been an extrapolation of the MW2 figures. There was a more 'offiicial' looking report, I think from Australia on world piracy rates, can't find the link now, but that said the average rate was 38% world wide, with about 20% is the US and 33% in the UK. I think those figures are more belivable, so the question is, how much do these anti piracy measures cost? Perhaps Ubi is moving to their own system as Starforce is becoming too expensive to license.

The budget lables usually remove DRM not, I suspect, because of phillantropic reasons, but because they don't want to pay the licensing fee to Starforce. For them, piracy isn't much of a threat as I guess most people would have pirated it by then so they would be making a loss on the anti piracy measures.

So what's the cost of DRM versus the cost of lost profit (not revenue!)? I have no idea, but that's your tipping point. The needs or conveniences of the customer don't seem to factor into the equation at all.

You read that report I posted in the other forum, right? Yes, I don't know how accurate it is but it makes a lot of sense. Console games (difficult to crack) being released before PC versions (easy to crack); the number of downloads on torrent sites, and massive numbers reported through patch and MP records, etc. At least with a major title like Assassin's Creed II, if it is not cracked, it could demonstrate the strength of sales. Of course, with so many people refusing to buy it because of DRM, it really hampers good reporting. No matter how one does the numbers, it's obvious that a lot of vocal opponents to strong DRM are motivated because they never intended to buy the game in the first place, they see their 5-finger discount abilities being restricted.

[Brag]

Ubi keeps changing the name. From DRM to OSP, now It's Uplay. What's the matter with them, are they nervous?

My suggestion:

Take a donkey, paint stripes on it, then call it a zebra. When that doesn't work, call it a DRMedary. When that doesn't work go to the OSPital for brain surgery.

[MasterCaine]

Originally Posted by Brag

Ubi keeps changing the name. From DRM to OSP, now It's Uplay. What's the matter with them, are they nervous?

I do hope you are joking. I haven't heard this.

Maybe they should rename it UplayIfandWhenWeDecideUplay

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

There are also some conclusions which, while not really obviously flawed, I don't agree with.

I found the same, he just decides something is right and can't see the other side to it. I'll give you an example from the article:

In fact piracy of Portal is an interesting case to examine. A quick search on Mininova currently reveals around 30 active torrents for The Orange Box, a game package released in November 2007 of which Portal was a part. For those who don't know, The Orange Box is famous for being one of the best gaming deals of 2007/2008 - five major games in one package (Half Life 2, HL2: Episode 1, HL2: Episode 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal) all for the price of a standard game, distributed via Steam with no intrusive DRM, and receiving nothing but praise from reviewers and gamers alike.

He seems to be unwilling to look at this from the purchaser's point of view. Half Life 2 was billed as being the first part in an episodic series, where each new installment would have a short story and new environments. This was stated as a benefit to the customer, as they could get new content every six months and pay a fraction of the cost of a full title. This was a good idea. Episode One takes much longer than expected to come out, but it's still at a lower price. The fans aren't happy at the delay, but at least they now have HL2 and HL2: Episode One to play.

Then, Episode 2 takes one and a half years to make AND you can't buy it as a standalone product. You HAD to buy it with Portal, TF2, HL2 and HL2: E1. Fans of the series already had two of those games and some were only interested on the Episode Two part, which they had been expecting, as promised at a lower price. So, not much of a bargain now is it? Maybe for people who had NOT SUPPORTED VALVE, it was a great deal, but for those that had, it was a bit of a slap in the face. There was lots of complaining at the time.

I had to wait until The Orange Box came out as a bargain deal. So perhaps the message here is sod supporting the franchise, because they'll screw you over, much better to ignore it and get a great deal because you didn't support the company earlier on.

Looking at Valve again, they released L4D with a promise of more content, but then released L4D2 only a year later and abandonned the L4D game. Another slap in the face for people who supported the company?

It seems that from whichever way you look at you, you are a fool if you are loyal to a publisher, because they'll widdle all over you. Much better, from the consumer's point of view to remain coy, but that isn't good for the publishers - so why do they keep widdling on people?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

He seems to be unwilling to look at this from the purchaser's point of view. Half Life 2 was billed as being the first part in an episodic series, where each new installment would have a short story and new environments. This was stated as a benefit to the customer, as they could get new content every six months and pay a fraction of the cost of a full title. This was a good idea. Episode One takes much longer than expected to come out, but it's still at a lower price. The fans aren't happy at the delay, but at least they now have HL2 and HL2: Episode One to play.

Are you saying that it's okay to pirate a game because it was delayed?

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Then, Episode 2 takes one and a half years to make AND you can't buy it as a standalone product. You HAD to buy it with Portal, TF2, HL2 and HL2: E1. Fans of the series already had two of those games and some were only interested on the Episode Two part, which they had been expecting, as promised at a lower price. So, not much of a bargain now is it? Maybe for people who had NOT SUPPORTED VALVE, it was a great deal, but for those that had, it was a bit of a slap in the face. There was lots of complaining at the time.

Not true. Episode 2 was released on it's own, at a suitably low price, at the same time as the Orange Box. I bought it.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Are you saying that it's okay to pirate a game because it was delayed?

No, I'm not saying it. I am saying that the large publishers will not be loyal to their customer base, regardless of the customer bases' loyalty to them. I never mentioned anything to do with piracy or illegal activities in that post. I was addressing the bias of the author, nothing else.

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Not true. Episode 2 was released on it's own, at a suitably low price, at the same time as the Orange Box. I bought it.

Must have missed that - was it in the shops or only on steam? How about Portal, was that released as a standalone game? Or was that only available as an 'outstanding value' product?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Did I say that? No, I didn't. So I'm not saying it. I am saying that the large publishers will not be loyal to their customer base, regardless of the customer bases' loyalty to them.

Okay, so how does that relate to KG's article on piracy?

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Must have missed that - was it in the shops or only on steam? How about Portal, was that released as a standalone game? Or was that only available as an 'outstanding value' product?

Episode 2 was released worldwide on Steam. Portal was also released separately on Steam, but I don't remember when.