Are you you rooting for failure for SH5?

[Feuer Frei!]

I think "someone" is just out to "start" something here......does it even warrant a reply? Or does it even warrant an off topic comment.....
ie not addressing the title of the thread......
Meh, i won't bite

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yep. And if not enough customers buy what they are offering, they won't make it again.

One reason why SH5 is being aimed at the casual gamer is SH4 did not sell well enough. And how many here refused to buy SH4? Enough, obviously. Granted, SH4 was unfinished, but wait till you see SH6. It will be 100% unfinished.

You know, I really tire of the guilt trip that if I don't buy the game the series will die and it will all be my fault, so I must buy it no matter how cr@p it is because the devs love me and I must be grateful and so on.

That's pure BS.

If Ubisoft put out a good game, it would sell itself. If it's cr@p, then people won't buy it. Simple supply and demand.

If the series dies it's not the fault of the consumers, it is fairly and squarely the fault of the developer (yes, I said it!) and the publisher, for failing to provide what the majority of consumers wanted.

To that end, I don't want SH5 to fail, but if it does, I will not carry any guilt. Indeed, I will see it as hopefully a fresh beginning in the subsim genre. It may take a few years, but I have no doubt that an indie dev house will take up the challenge.

In other words, I have as much loyalty to Ubisoft as they have to me...no more...no less...

[Ships-R-Us]

Originally Posted by evan82

Maybe this game is adressed to a little different group of players than we are:
- Wow dad, what this is?
- This is german U-Boat son.
- Woooow!
Looks like our impact on this game is marginal and UBI don't care so much about this what peoples say on this forum today, so where is the problem?

Thank you. You are correct. A large percentage of our membership consists of devoted career hearty members that fall outside the normal realm. Neal Stevens did post a statistic today referencing a game manufacturer that only sold 15,000 copies of a game in the beginning but had 80,000 patch downloads. That is well over my % estimate. Those facts and others are everywhere.

I simply got on this topic in an effort to explain "in my kind of terms" why Ubisoft is doing what they do. They are protecting their rights to ownership. Yes, SH5 out of the box is a great game to the run of the mill gamer. That is where Ubisofts focus is and with most cause.

Sh5 will play perfectly on the slowest dial-up connection. Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM. The others are whining without cause, which has led me to believe "pirate" in a lot of instances, not all, as there are more dishonest players than not. My arguement was reasonabally based.

Again after reading Michaels letter that Neal posted today I even went to a higher level of enlightenment.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Ships-R-Us

Neal Stevens did post a statistic today referencing a game manufacturer that only sold 15,000 copies of a game in the beginning but had 80,000 patch downloads.

Tell me, how many people d/l the patch more than once?

Stats can be construed to prove any point, 86% of all pirates know that.

I'm not doubting piracy is an issue, but this blind throwing around of figures gleaned from the interwebs is pure lunacy, especially when most comes from the same people who are trying to defend their actions against piracy (ie, hardly an objective opinion or reasoning).

Originally Posted by JScones

You know, I really tire of the guilt trip that if I don't buy the game the series will die and it will all be my fault, so I must buy it no matter how cr@p it is because the devs love me and I must be grateful and so on.

That's pure BS.

If Ubisoft put out a good game, it would sell itself. If it's cr@p, then people won't buy it. Simple supply and demand.

If the series dies it's not the fault of the consumers, it is fairly and squarely the fault of the developer (yes, I said it!) and the publisher, for failing to provide what the majority of consumers wanted.

To that end, I don't want SH5 to fail, but if it does, I will not carry any guilt. Indeed, I will see it as hopefully a fresh beginning in the subsim genre. It may take a few years, but I have no doubt that an indie dev house will take up the challenge.

In other words, I have as much loyalty to Ubisoft as they have to me...no more...no less...

JScones, be careful what are you saying about the devs, because they have a strong army of defenders here! I was even banned a short time ago for doing the heresy to "touch" one of them.

[FIREWALL]

FACT: The day my Preorder SH4 arrived I couldn't play it for 4hrs until the first patch that same day was released from Ubisoft.

Posts were so hot around here you needed to keep a fire extinguisher near your monitor.

I stupidly bought SH4 Gold 1.5 UBM. What a joke.

The only thing that saved it was the Modders.


The only way I'll own SH5 is if someone is dumb enough to buy it for me.

As for Ubisoft. I wouldn't lose any sleep if they went TiT's up tomorrow.

There'de be a new one the day after.

If I'm gonna feel sorry for anyone it's the Devs.
They were just doing what their Bosses told them to do.

My gut tells me if they would've been given more time and left alone to build this game.

It might have been a U-Boat Sim that would have made History in the Sim gameing world.

[Don_D_Dwain]

Hello Guys and Gals. This DRM thing, does not intrest me in the least. I mean, if I have to log on to a server to install the game, that is one thing. But as long as I don't have to log on after it is installed, Thank God. It seems that, it just may be that simple, and I hope it is. I don't have a good (new laptop), and thats ok, but one day if I want to get a new laptop, I don't want to have to be "connected" to play the games I like. It is not always that I am home on a desk top. So, I know they (the developers) don't want to be taken advangtag of, and neither do I. I have a game I can't play, cause my old system still has the game logged into when the Mother Board went ka put. Will not let that happen again, so I will approach this game with caution. The second that I loose money for something I am not getting, is the last second I will look at a product that is made by the same company. THQ sold me its last product, for that reason. Thanks, see you all next time.

[evan82]

Originally Posted by Ships-R-Us

I simply got on this topic in an effort to explain "in my kind of terms" why Ubisoft is doing what they do. They are protecting their rights to ownership. Yes, SH5 out of the box is a great game to the run of the mill gamer. That is where Ubisofts focus is and with most cause.

Sh5 will play perfectly on the slowest dial-up connection. Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM. The others are whining without cause, which has led me to believe "pirate" in a lot of instances, not all, as there are more dishonest players than not. My arguement was reasonabally based.

Pirates. How many "pirates" can invade my system throught DRM system?
I like to play offline, because I shut down antivirus then for better gameplay. This is one. I want to have my saves on my PC - this is two.
If I pay for something I pay for all, and I do not want pay for something, what should be mine, if part of it, will be not mine at all, capende?

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Every new bit of information about this game is pounced on by people gleefully picking every nit and smugly predicting SH5 a total failure because it doesn't address their pet issue to their satisfaction. I swear, some people are going to actually be disappointed if the game doesn't suck! Not to mention the DRM freakout. No one has seen anything other than descriptions of unfinished previews and they're ready to write it off. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face!

Do you not understand what's at stake? This is likely the best we're ever going to get. There is never going to be a sub sim made for us. It's too expensive and the market is too small. The best we can hope for is a game aimed at the mass market that, underneath, has the realism our community can bring out with mods. Everything I see about this game screams 'potential'. Yeah, it's got a simplified interface, but it has to to bring new people into our hobby. Without new people, our hobby dies.

I'm convinced 'our game' is in there, underneath that 'ease of use' layer, if for no other reason than that it's built on SHIII/IV. They didn't throw away their code and start over.

I'm not saying everyone should be a mindless cheerleader and buy the game no matter what, but for God's sake, if SH5 fails, the franchise is quite likely finished. And with that, this hobby, that means so much to us, is DEAD.

Alright, I figured I'd take my turn at a rant. So now go ahead and call me a fanboy or a sellout or tell me 'moo!' a few more times if it makes you feel better.

Well Im with you on this
But yes the negativity is normal Im afraid.

[BarjackU977]

> Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM.
> The others are whining without cause

Don't mix your opinions and facts.

Customers have wishes/demands/requirements.
Ubisoft has requirements.

Fight Piracy is one, amongst a list of many more.

All must be taken into account (along with their relative importance), in an attempt to find an acceptable, and hopefully the best compromise for both parties.

Originally Posted by Ships-R-Us

Thank you. You are correct. A large percentage of our membership consists of devoted career hearty members that fall outside the normal realm. Neal Stevens did post a statistic today referencing a game manufacturer that only sold 15,000 copies of a game in the beginning but had 80,000 patch downloads. That is well over my % estimate. Those facts and others are everywhere.

I simply got on this topic in an effort to explain "in my kind of terms" why Ubisoft is doing what they do. They are protecting their rights to ownership. Yes, SH5 out of the box is a great game to the run of the mill gamer. That is where Ubisofts focus is and with most cause.

Sh5 will play perfectly on the slowest dial-up connection. Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM. The others are whining without cause, which has led me to believe "pirate" in a lot of instances, not all, as there are more dishonest players than not. My arguement was reasonabally based.

Again after reading Michaels letter that Neal posted today I even went to a higher level of enlightenment.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Ships-R-Us

I can see that there are people respectfully disagreeing with me. Fine. However everyone that has posted here SHOULD KNOW and BELIEVE that more pirated copys get played than legal copys. Having said that, how can one believe that Subsim contains more saints than elsewhere? The probability that there are more than 40% virgins here is a fairy tale.

From where did, in your opinion, the legit SH3/4 purchases come from? From the casual gamers? Because +15,000 for each game, no matter how small a number, is more than the number of members registered here at SubSim, I think. Add to that, the number of purchases from communities that also like to support the sims. And what you get is a less 10-5% (say, probably 20% maxing it out) incidence of pirate gamers for SH3/4. Sure, if you venture into some other community, or into the casual gamers realms, there will be a lot of pirated copies there, but here, I think most of us are aware of the benefits for all of us of paying for our sims.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by BarjackU977

It's true that money is needed to assure a future to the game.

Yet, is that a reason to give money, whatever Ubi comes up with? I don't think so.

I don't believe it's a lack of "tolerance" from me. I purchased SH2, SH3, SH4 + its expansion as from day 1. But I don't find it healthy to always buy, whatever happens, just for the hope of more hypothetical games of quality, and of the genre you want (simulation? More casual? etc) in the future. That would be sending a wrong message, I think.

Yes, that's the counter-arguement "to buying the game even if it does not match the level of quality or features expected to keep the franchise alive", and who knows, maybe you're right. We're about to find out

Originally Posted by JScones

You know, I really tire of the guilt trip that if I don't buy the game the series will die and it will all be my fault, so I must buy it no matter how cr@p it is because the devs love me and I must be grateful and so on.

That's pure BS.

If Ubisoft put out a good game, it would sell itself. If it's cr@p, then people won't buy it. Simple supply and demand.

If the series dies it's not the fault of the consumers, it is fairly and squarely the fault of the developer (yes, I said it!) and the publisher, for failing to provide what the majority of consumers wanted.

To that end, I don't want SH5 to fail, but if it does, I will not carry any guilt. Indeed, I will see it as hopefully a fresh beginning in the subsim genre. It may take a few years, but I have no doubt that an indie dev house will take up the challenge.

In other words, I have as much loyalty to Ubisoft as they have to me...no more...no less...

Guilt, loyalty, fault, blame.... all just feelings. My PC won't run those and output a simulation. You're not alone is feeling "Ubisoft is not producing a game worth $50, I'm going to stick it to them". But I don't think that is going to produce a happier result than buying the game and pushing for continued support. I'm glad people didn't adopt that stance when SH2 came out, for there would have never been a SH3.

And regarding an indie developer producing a detailed subsim, what makes you think they can do better than Ubi Romania? That's a dream, the closest thing I've ever seen in 20 years to an indie subsim is Enigma and Shells of Fury.

Edit: let me add this, Jaesen. I am NOT saying you are wrong or incorrect in your opinion. Not at all. But I "think" in the end, only continued sales of the current SH game will compell the only subsim game developer/publisher left to approve of a next one in the series. If you're football team loses week after week, no one wants to pay to see that. But if every fan stays home and the stands are empty, game over, the team will move or fold, and then there's no chance they will ever play and be competitive. Except in the world of submarine games, unlike sports, there's a lot less to choose from.

Edit 2: Lol, I can't let this one alone Last thing I want to say on the topic: With SH2 and SH4, games that were released with problems, I cheerleaded with all my might ofr people to buy them regardless. I am NOT doing that now for SH5. If everyone decides to pass on SH5, fine. But I don't think people should hold their breath for another Silent Hunter sim. Al good things come to an end sometime.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by evan82

I like to play offline, because I shut down antivirus then for better gameplay. This is one. I want to have my saves on my PC - this is two.
If I pay for something I pay for all, and I do not want pay for something, what should be mine, if part of it, will be not mine at all, capende?

Sounds like you want to have your license to cake and eat it.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Guilt, loyalty, fault, blame.... all just feelings. My PC won't run those and output a simulation. You're not alone is feeling "Ubisoft is not producing a game worth $50, I'm going to stick it to them". But I don't think that is going to produce a happier result than buying the game and pushing for continued support.

"Happier" is a feeling too Neal...who's going to be happier? You? Me? Ubisoft? Will my PC turn "happier" into a simulation?

You've reinforced the point I was making.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

And regarding an indie developer producing a detailed subsim, what makes you think they can do better than Ubi Romania? That's a dream, the closest thing I've ever seen in 20 years to an indie subsim is Enigma and Shells of Fury.

Well, there's a number of people here who like to remind everyone that the devs are working for us and all dodgy design choices are the cause of Ubisoft, so, the solution is easy. The devs leave Ubisoft Romania, form their own company and develop a new series of real subsims, free of the evil and bad Ubisoft.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

But I don't think people should hold their breath for another Silent Hunter sim. Al good things come to an end sometime.

Maybe not another SH... but what about surface ships?... we've been asking that for years, the SH saga (specially its MP mode) would be incomplete without the ability to be able to control those that hunt the hunters (and bigger). Besides, I refuse to think all is lost, that this is the end. Yeah, it's looking not so good, but it's not dark yet.

Cheers