If you dont like the online DRM...

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by trenken

It's a large structural change that would need to take place, its simply not happening. Live with it or stop crying about it because it is what it is, dont buy the game if you dont want. Simple as that.

You got some pretty flawed logic my friend.
This is a single player game not an MMO. So it should have minimal amount of code about the DRM. I bet it's just a wrapper around the core SH5 code, and some more on the savegame/patch update engine. It could be very easy to take out for the developers, if UBI ever decided to do so.

And Subsim is the biggest community of online simmers, just what are you talking about

[trenken]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

I bet it's just a wrapper around the core SH5 code

Hehe, wikipedia is your friend. It's not a wrapper. It's something that is decided before anything is done on the game because every single aspect of the game needs to know how to work with DRM. Do some research.

About the community, noone is saying its not the biggest, but it is still relatively small to all the gamers that would buy SH5. Im pretty sure they arent going to delay and rebuild aspect of this game for a handful of people here. Seriously man...

[badkarma]

Originally Posted by trenken

Hehe, wikipedia is your friend. It's not a wrapper. It's something that is decided before anything is done on the game because every single aspect of the game needs to know how to work with DRM. Do some research.

About the community, noone is saying its not the biggest, but it is still relatively small to all the gamers that would buy SH5. Im pretty sure they arent going to delay and rebuild aspect of this game for a handful of people here. Seriously man...

So when asked in the Q&A if the DRM would be removed at a future date if the servers were to be removed due to age, etc, their reply that "we would create a patch that would remove the need to connect" is actually a TOTAL lie?
As according to you, it cannot be removed.

Odd that UBI themselves say it can. Oh and no doubt a hacking crew will have it removed within days of release, if not before.

But it can't be removed? I believe "Do some research" is appropriate, for you.

[trenken]

Originally Posted by badkarma

So when asked in the Q&A if the DRM would be removed at a future date if the servers were to be removed due to age, etc, their reply that "we would create a patch that would remove the need to connect" is actually a TOTAL lie?
As according to you, it cannot be removed.

Odd that UBI themselves say it can. Oh and no doubt a hacking crew will have it removed within days of release, if not before.

But it can't be removed? I believe "Do some research" is appropriate, for you.

Did someone say its impossible to remove it? I sure didnt, what I said was thats not a very easy thing to do.

Go on youtube and search for guild wars dev diaries. It also uses DRM, and Jeff Strain talks about how massive a project it is to construct a game around DRM. Every aspect of the game is built with DRM in mind, but it can be removed. Anything can be done, but it would take a long time. A year would not surprise me at all.

[badkarma]

Originally Posted by trenken

Did someone say its impossible to remove it? I sure didnt, what I said was thats not a very easy thing to do.

Go on youtube and search for guild wars dev diaries. It also uses DRM, and Jeff Strain talks about how massive a project it is to construct a game around DRM. Every aspect of the game is built with DRM in mind, but it can be removed. Anything can be done, but it would take a long time. A year would not surprise me at all.

You REALLY need to get over the Guild Wars obsession here.
Have you played any single player non-MMO games that require internet
connection? That might actually be relevant to this discussion.
Guild Wars is an MMO, ergo it will ALWAYS need a connection. It's a totally different beast.

And as Mikhayl stated, there is no way they're going to pay devs a year to rewrite most of the game to remove the DRM, so quit with your random guesses.
According to you hackers rewrite these game in 3 days! Man they're good, maybe we should pay them a weeks wages to write us the ultimate sub sim?

[GoldenRivet]

all i can say

with the one sub choice

with the 1943 ending

with the DRM nightmare good vs. evil debate

things are stacking up for SHV

and the image that becomes more and more clear every day is not looking great.

[trenken]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

So Ubi would pay a team of programmers for 6months/1year just to publish an offline patch when they decide to remove support for a game from their servers? And that for all their games? Please.

No you're not understanding. Again GW is a great example since it uses DRM. Arenanet is talking about stopping support for GW, but you can play the game forever, it will always use DRM, it will always access their server, they just wont be serving any updates, thats what not supporting means, it doesnt mean changing the way the game works.

They wouldnt rebuild the entire game when all their servers are doing is holding people save files and tracking stats. That's nothing. There would never be a need to do that.

DRM is also great as time goes by, it allows them to improve the look of the game over time, updating textures and whatnot. Its really cool.

[trenken]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

Originally Posted by trenken

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

So you wanna talk about the wind of changes ? Mind telling at least one good thing about RDM system ?

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by trenken

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good.

Comparing a MMO, that requires a permanent connection with a single player game that does not need such connection, except when used in multiplayer mode does not make you look any more knowledgeable about the details.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by trenken

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason for my decision not to buy it is based on a five year history with Ubisoft. Buggy games that need significant patching are one thing, but add online DRM into that equation and for me it's a deal breaker. Simple as that.

That doesn't mean that I disagree with some of the points you make, trenken, especially regarding Starforce. I was trying to figure out what possible relationship Starforce has to online DRM.

I just don't trust this Publisher. So I'm out.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by trenken

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

Well please, educate the dumb masses here as to what DRM is exactly.

[Nickolas]

Originally Posted by trenken

...how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game...

it IS rather easy, that's why games get cracked... its just a few lines of code that activate or block the game's code. That why you can't compare an MMO with a normal game, an MMO needs to be told by the server where other players are and stuff, that's why the whole code "depends" on the "DRM".

Originally Posted by trenken

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

DRM stands for Digital Rights Management, copy protection, by definition is DRM. Starforce is DRM and whatever DRM they are using is not called DRM.

If i remember correctly, mass effect required to connect to internet every 3 or 4 days to remain active (somewhat similar to SHV's DRM) and it was cracked

Originally Posted by trenken

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good.

change can be good, that's true but it also can be bad. And with the info we are getting looks like change will be BAD this time.

Originally Posted by trenken

I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

that speech about "not having played it yet" is getting really old. If we feel we are not happy with the information we are given we can (and will) make it public. That way UBI could (and i'm not saying they will) come and tell us how and why we are wrong instead of thinking "hehe, these guys will love the game", and turns out nobody buys it because we feel alienated by the campaign map screenshot they posted earlier.

[badkarma]

Originally Posted by trenken

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge

No, just you.

Originally Posted by trenken

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days.

Go find out how long it took to circumvent the DRM that's in Empire:Total War. Then get back here with some knowledge, not just the details contained in 2 blog posts you once read about an MMO.
People WILL be playing SH5, on the day of release, and won't have paid a penny for it or need to report to the mother ship that they just fired a torp at an AI ship.
And currently, there are probably going to be a lot more people typing "SHV" and "Torrent" into google than there were previously.

This is why piracy is so difficult to stop, because once 1 person cracks (and be sure they will) it it is impossible to stop the distribution.. so much so, whereas once cracked games were the preserve of little groups of hackers they are now open to anyone with a little knowledge and access to google.
Making legitimate users lives so awkward that they consider looking for the cracked version is hardly the solution.

But you continue to preach your amazing future, irrelevant of everyone elses' opinions.
You are, of course, far better than the rest us.

[Galanti]

Originally Posted by trenken

and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards.

I think you're making a mistake equating this community with the majority of gamers out there. The 'services' this DRM scheme offers may be of some value to the COD gun bunnies or Guild Wars fanatics of the world, but at the risk of repeating myself, are just not compatible with the way most subsimmers play their beloved sims.

Most of us, I think, play offline exclusively. Streaming updates kill mods, and we need mods, particularly if we're only getting one boat and that wretched UI is actually going to be shipped with the game.

You may be right that this is the way the industry is moving, and that we as a community may very well be marginalized and left behind, but you;re not going to change very many minds here. Go pitch 'The Great Leap Forward' somewhere else.