Hacked Emails Show Climate Science Ridden with Rancor

baggygreen · 12-05-09, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

At the same time this planet sees another speed record: that for the fastet mass exticntion of species ever. Never before Earth has carried such a diversity in different species. and never before have species died in such a rapid succession like they do since the mpdern past, I don't know, let'S say 150 years or so. again the factor by which it accelerated, ranks in the 3-4 digit range.

for both these accelerations, no scientific discipline knows a precedent or comparable parallel caused by natural climate fluctuations.

Not actually true, Sky.

Carboniferous period saw the most diverse range of plant and animal life (albeit somewhat less complex than todays), and the period finished in an extremely quick fashion at the end of the period.

Interesting to note, that C02 levels were roughly 3000ppm as opposed to the measly 385 or so of today, and yet the earth supported more and more diverse life than now.

hmmm

Skybird · 12-05-09, 08:32 AM

Haplo,

First, better do not base on the assumption the email "scandal" shows any systematic, widespread effort or habit to feed manipulated data for reasons of pushing an “Goreanesque” agenda. The scandal so far is not basing on the content of the emails, but is fabricated. There is not a single systematic analysis out that proves point by point that the accused emails are what they are claimed to be, but over the past days more and more insiders from the fields seem to speak out that they cannot see the accusations as being true when they consider there knowledge of habits and proceeds from inside the field. There is a lot of yelling and fingerpointing going on, and shouting and "scandal" and "shame!", but until today it is just ungrounded media hysteria that even is so noisy that it creates waves into the politicians' arena as well. And that is wanted, and that is why it has been fabricated.

antikristuseke has posted a nice video which shows some very illustrating spotlight on what I say. It is linked somewhere above, I recommend you see it.

Second, whether or not I watch a graphs of temperature over the past few centuries, or the past millennia and millions of years, I see two cycles in them, making them look like the "skyline" of a shark's row of teeth. There seems to be a natural fluctuation cycle creating ups and downs over long periods of time, we are not talking just 600 years, but at least many millennia. These spikes are the single teeth of the shark. And then there are even smaller zig-zags in the contour-lines of these "teeth", micro-fluctuations taking place over much shorter periods of time, some centuries, and less. These are the serrated edges of the single teeth of the shark. Your reference to the medieval ice age is like that.

In the past let's say 150-200 years, we have seen a quick, very high upwards spike, a spike that also has a serrated edges, but the peaks in this serration are following in shorter succession, and they are separated by longer vertical distances, meaning the temperature from peak to peak is separated by a bigger margin (sorry, I feel I currently mess with English, it seems to me). This together means a massive acceleration of a warming, taking place in a fluctuating process that sees greater extremes than we have known before. You do not see such extremes in temperature difference sin a given timeframe, or such an acceleration in the beginning cooling and ending warming phase of the medieval mini - ice age, for example.

This sudden, almost vertical rocket climb of the curve corresponds to the timetable for the beginning population explosion, the industrialisation, and the also sudden acceleration of species' extinction.

Let me tell a story. It is an epic story truly minimising the importance of man and all timescales he is used to, and it will appear to be a distraction at first, but I explain at the very end why I tell you.

360 million years ago - I admit we think in different timescales now than just from the present back to the medieval - the era of the "Devon" (same word in English?) ended with a mass termination of animal and zoological and botanic life that saw half of the species in the ocean disappearing from the stage of planet Earth. The so far dominant species of the the placodermi (appropriately called "Panzerfische" in German) was completely terminated, and the architects of the coral reefs of that time were decimated and escaped extinction only by a single hair' width. The reason for these mass extinctions at the end of the Devon is unclear, popular theory is to assume that Earth once again had been hit by meteor strike.

but it was becoming even worse. the Carboniferous lasted until 200 million years ago, following the Devon. This era sees just one giant super continent, surrounded by just one big super-ocean, and the appearing of the first coal deposits. Glaciers formed at the poles, and the oxygen in atmosphere reached a hopping 35%, resulting the enormous boost in vegetation. Fishes start to undergo major evolutionary improvement, sharks appear, squids are one dominant species in the oceans. Both animals and plants enjoy an era where they reach sizes like never before, and never again after.

but then, in the North-East of Pangaea, today's Siberia, a very ambitious Volcanic activity started to seal the fate of this era.

Life was not in balance back then. Dead organic material was not transformed as efficiently, as it was to be seen in later eras, on the other hand, the ocean was brimming with monstrous life producing ever more amounts of future dead organic matter. The dead matter reacted with the high levels of oxygen in the atmosphere, binding it. The oxygen level in the atmosphere dropped to 16% (today it is 21%). due to the forming of glaciers and the polar ice caps, the sea level fell, exposing even more dead matter to the air that before was covered by water and hidden on shallow parts of the ocean floor. The forming of the united super-continent did not help, too, because it had drastically altered the sea tidings and the circulation of global ocean waters was not as efficient anymore as it had been before.

The Volcanic activity pumped a lot of toxic agents and substances into the air, not only being dangerous to life, but also changing climate regulation and the temperature absorption, although the latter probably was on a scale that it would not have caused that drastic end-result as there has been. Ashes and sulphur combinations amassed in the atmosphere. It became colder as sun light was reflected. More ice formed up, the sea level fell even more. Some scientists say the ozone layer suffered major damage, others point at the changed sea currents that favoured bacteria eating sulphur, and their excretions slowly poisoned the ocean and poisoned the life forms in it that could not adapt to these agents soon enough.

This development was further helped, so says a dominant theory, by the impact of a meteor 6-12 km in diameter somewhere in the ocean. This probably has caused a chemical chain reaction that led to the freeing of almost all methane reserves on earth and the creation of new methane, most of it getting bound in the water. This proceeding caused by a stellar event worked hand in hand with the ongoing global killing project initiated by Earth's volcanoes.

The estimated result of this cooperation differs from source to source, nevertheless it is dramatic. Some say that 90-95% of all life forms on earth faced extinction. Others estimate that "only" 75% of all species on land but at least 95% of all maritime species in the ocean had been terminated.

Why do I tell this big story, why did I take the time to quickly reread two brief chapters in one book of mine to sort my memories on the timeline numbers, and summarize all this in the above paragraphs?

The reason is simple. It is to illustrate what it means when scientists tell us that currently the global climate is changing faster and quicker and more excessively than ever before in the known history of Earth, further helped by a stellar event that today is not there in defence of man-caused consequences. It is to illustrate the dimension of the acceleration in climate change, because this insight into Earth's past can only be filled with a living idea of what that means for us today instead of just intellectual, abstract interest if putting it into a context of geologic timescales. Planet earth has seen cataclysms that have been much, much more drastic than what we currently can, by all reason, assume to come as a result of Global Warming. But even these worse disasters were accompanied by changes in the Earth's atmosphere and climate that took place in time spans that are a hundred and thousand times longer than the handful of years in which we have accelerated climate changes in the present that by their extrapolated trend could cause as severe climatologic endresults as back then, and it needed probably meteors impacting to reach the effects that man seems to have triggered all by himself. I repeatedly read comments of scientists saying something like that man's impact on the ecosystem of planet earth can only be compared to the meteorite that hit Earth and ended the era of the dinosaurs - just that man works quicker. Today, species on this planet get deleted by extinction much faster than ever before in earth's history, and faster than during the long mass extinction at the end of the carboniferous that lasted 60 million years and took quite some part of that time to get all that life killed. Zoologists and botanies say we have accelerated the extinction of species by up to a four digit factor. Climatologists say we have accelerated the climate warming by a factor in the high three digits or low four digits. The beginning of both processes corresponds with human population explosion and mass industrialisation.

that has been a long story. Now does that put some things into relation?

We are not only responsible for ourselves, but also for the generations coming after us. It is people's future we mess up that even are not born, and cannot defend themselves and their valid interest to have a place to live in themselves. And all we do is searching excuses why we must not care and why we must not change and why we must not stop accelerating climate changes and why we are not responsible and why it cannot be what should not be, and we invest resources in fabricating pseudo-scandals and pseudo-data whose only purpose is to reassure us that we must not change.

Homo sapiens - the man gifted with reason, and intelligence.

Well - really?

Skybird · 12-05-09, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Not actually true, Sky.

Carboniferous period saw the most diverse range of plant and animal life (albeit somewhat less complex than todays), and the period finished in an extremely quick fashion at the end of the period.

Interesting to note, that C02 levels were roughly 3000ppm as opposed to the measly 385 or so of today, and yet the earth supported more and more diverse life than now.

hmmm

While I wrote for Haplo and posted the one before this post, you posted as well.

Well, see my description on the Carboniferous. We are talking about a mass extinction that was very total, but nevertheless took place over much longer time then the speed record set by our present. we compare the past 100-200 years - to tens if not hundreds of thousands of years, maybe even more. Think in geologic time scales. The carboniferous lasted roughly 60 million years. Even a fraction of that seeing the extinction of much of the life forms of that time - most likely ystill means hundreds of tousand, even one or 2 million years. and one million years only - is fast, for geological standards.

The diversity of life forms today is the highest in Earth's history. If we already have deleted so much of that that it compares to a prominent numerical fraction of the diversity of species 300 million years ago, and did acchieve that in just 200 years where back then it took a thousand times or more longer, then this really holds a message, doesn't it.

Again, man's impact on earth only compares to a major killer meteorite impact - just that we work for the consequences a thousand times faster than that damn rock.

12-05-09, 08:32 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,687 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Haplo, First, better do not base on the assumption the email "scandal" shows any systematic, widespread effort or habit to feed manipulated data for reasons of pushing an “Goreanesque” agenda. The scandal so far is not basing on the content of the emails, but is fabricated. There is not a single systematic analysis out that proves point by point that the accused emails are what they are claimed to be, but over the past days more and more insiders from the fields seem to speak out that they cannot see the accusations as being true when they consider there knowledge of habits and proceeds from inside the field. There is a lot of yelling and fingerpointing going on, and shouting and "scandal" and "shame!", but until today it is just ungrounded media hysteria that even is so noisy that it creates waves into the politicians' arena as well. And that is wanted, and that is why it has been fabricated. antikristuseke has posted a nice video which shows some very illustrating spotlight on what I say. It is linked somewhere above, I recommend you see it. Second, whether or not I watch a graphs of temperature over the past few centuries, or the past millennia and millions of years, I see two cycles in them, making them look like the "skyline" of a shark's row of teeth. There seems to be a natural fluctuation cycle creating ups and downs over long periods of time, we are not talking just 600 years, but at least many millennia. These spikes are the single teeth of the shark. And then there are even smaller zig-zags in the contour-lines of these "teeth", micro-fluctuations taking place over much shorter periods of time, some centuries, and less. These are the serrated edges of the single teeth of the shark. Your reference to the medieval ice age is like that. In the past let's say 150-200 years, we have seen a quick, very high upwards spike, a spike that also has a serrated edges, but the peaks in this serration are following in shorter succession, and they are separated by longer vertical distances, meaning the temperature from peak to peak is separated by a bigger margin (sorry, I feel I currently mess with English, it seems to me). This together means a massive acceleration of a warming, taking place in a fluctuating process that sees greater extremes than we have known before. You do not see such extremes in temperature difference sin a given timeframe, or such an acceleration in the beginning cooling and ending warming phase of the medieval mini - ice age, for example. This sudden, almost vertical rocket climb of the curve corresponds to the timetable for the beginning population explosion, the industrialisation, and the also sudden acceleration of species' extinction. Let me tell a story. It is an epic story truly minimising the importance of man and all timescales he is used to, and it will appear to be a distraction at first, but I explain at the very end why I tell you. 360 million years ago - I admit we think in different timescales now than just from the present back to the medieval - the era of the "Devon" (same word in English?) ended with a mass termination of animal and zoological and botanic life that saw half of the species in the ocean disappearing from the stage of planet Earth. The so far dominant species of the the placodermi (appropriately called "Panzerfische" in German) was completely terminated, and the architects of the coral reefs of that time were decimated and escaped extinction only by a single hair' width. The reason for these mass extinctions at the end of the Devon is unclear, popular theory is to assume that Earth once again had been hit by meteor strike. but it was becoming even worse. the Carboniferous lasted until 200 million years ago, following the Devon. This era sees just one giant super continent, surrounded by just one big super-ocean, and the appearing of the first coal deposits. Glaciers formed at the poles, and the oxygen in atmosphere reached a hopping 35%, resulting the enormous boost in vegetation. Fishes start to undergo major evolutionary improvement, sharks appear, squids are one dominant species in the oceans. Both animals and plants enjoy an era where they reach sizes like never before, and never again after. but then, in the North-East of Pangaea, today's Siberia, a very ambitious Volcanic activity started to seal the fate of this era. Life was not in balance back then. Dead organic material was not transformed as efficiently, as it was to be seen in later eras, on the other hand, the ocean was brimming with monstrous life producing ever more amounts of future dead organic matter. The dead matter reacted with the high levels of oxygen in the atmosphere, binding it. The oxygen level in the atmosphere dropped to 16% (today it is 21%). due to the forming of glaciers and the polar ice caps, the sea level fell, exposing even more dead matter to the air that before was covered by water and hidden on shallow parts of the ocean floor. The forming of the united super-continent did not help, too, because it had drastically altered the sea tidings and the circulation of global ocean waters was not as efficient anymore as it had been before. The Volcanic activity pumped a lot of toxic agents and substances into the air, not only being dangerous to life, but also changing climate regulation and the temperature absorption, although the latter probably was on a scale that it would not have caused that drastic end-result as there has been. Ashes and sulphur combinations amassed in the atmosphere. It became colder as sun light was reflected. More ice formed up, the sea level fell even more. Some scientists say the ozone layer suffered major damage, others point at the changed sea currents that favoured bacteria eating sulphur, and their excretions slowly poisoned the ocean and poisoned the life forms in it that could not adapt to these agents soon enough. This development was further helped, so says a dominant theory, by the impact of a meteor 6-12 km in diameter somewhere in the ocean. This probably has caused a chemical chain reaction that led to the freeing of almost all methane reserves on earth and the creation of new methane, most of it getting bound in the water. This proceeding caused by a stellar event worked hand in hand with the ongoing global killing project initiated by Earth's volcanoes. The estimated result of this cooperation differs from source to source, nevertheless it is dramatic. Some say that 90-95% of all life forms on earth faced extinction. Others estimate that "only" 75% of all species on land but at least 95% of all maritime species in the ocean had been terminated. Why do I tell this big story, why did I take the time to quickly reread two brief chapters in one book of mine to sort my memories on the timeline numbers, and summarize all this in the above paragraphs? The reason is simple. It is to illustrate what it means when scientists tell us that currently the global climate is changing faster and quicker and more excessively than ever before in the known history of Earth, further helped by a stellar event that today is not there in defence of man-caused consequences. It is to illustrate the dimension of the acceleration in climate change, because this insight into Earth's past can only be filled with a living idea of what that means for us today instead of just intellectual, abstract interest if putting it into a context of geologic timescales. Planet earth has seen cataclysms that have been much, much more drastic than what we currently can, by all reason, assume to come as a result of Global Warming. But even these worse disasters were accompanied by changes in the Earth's atmosphere and climate that took place in time spans that are a hundred and thousand times longer than the handful of years in which we have accelerated climate changes in the present that by their extrapolated trend could cause as severe climatologic endresults as back then, and it needed probably meteors impacting to reach the effects that man seems to have triggered all by himself. I repeatedly read comments of scientists saying something like that man's impact on the ecosystem of planet earth can only be compared to the meteorite that hit Earth and ended the era of the dinosaurs - just that man works quicker. Today, species on this planet get deleted by extinction much faster than ever before in earth's history, and faster than during the long mass extinction at the end of the carboniferous that lasted 60 million years and took quite some part of that time to get all that life killed. Zoologists and botanies say we have accelerated the extinction of species by up to a four digit factor. Climatologists say we have accelerated the climate warming by a factor in the high three digits or low four digits. The beginning of both processes corresponds with human population explosion and mass industrialisation. that has been a long story. Now does that put some things into relation? We are not only responsible for ourselves, but also for the generations coming after us. It is people's future we mess up that even are not born, and cannot defend themselves and their valid interest to have a place to live in themselves. And all we do is searching excuses why we must not care and why we must not change and why we must not stop accelerating climate changes and why we are not responsible and why it cannot be what should not be, and we invest resources in fabricating pseudo-scandals and pseudo-data whose only purpose is to reassure us that we must not change. Homo sapiens - the man gifted with reason, and intelligence. Well - really? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.