RSRD Comments

I don't know whether it makes a difference, but I never play out of Pearl, I don't like that extended slog into the patrol area. So, Asiatic fleet for me...

It does seem that after the second or third patrol, when you get up past Darwin and into the enemy waters, there are an over-abundance of targets running about. That choke point at the top of Celebs is like a revolving door for Jap merchants, as is the area around Cam Ranh Bay and Saigon.



So, maybe it's those starting closer to enemy held areas that are experiencing such a target-rich environment.

I don't use the noob cannons either and still manage to rack up a lot of tonnage...

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Sevrin

That choke point at the top of Celebs is like a revolving door for Jap merchants, as is the area around Cam Ranh Bay and Saigon.

God yes. There's more choke points around that are the same too. Just because of the way the terrain is down in that area, you're going to have to pass through at least one of them to get to the patrol zone. Good luck with still having ammo by the time you're through there...

The terrain is actually what I like about playing the asiatic fleet tbh. It's much more varied than just the big open ocean you deal with coming out of pearl. There's islands all over the place you have to worry about, shallow areas (the java sea for example), lots of enemy airbases, and choke points you have to clear to go anywhere. Depending on where you are, there can be some pretty significant tactical ramifications of the terrain. Something I would really like to see is a couple of destroyers stationed at some of those narrow passages to attempt to stop me from getting through. Would be great fun.

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

God yes. There's more choke points around that are the same too. Just because of the way the terrain is down in that area, you're going to have to pass through at least one of them to get to the patrol zone. Good luck with still having ammo by the time you're through there...

The terrain is actually what I like about playing the asiatic fleet tbh. It's much more varied than just the big open ocean you deal with coming out of pearl. There's islands all over the place you have to worry about, shallow areas (the java sea for example), lots of enemy airbases, and choke points you have to clear to go anywhere. Depending on where you are, there can be some pretty significant tactical ramifications of the terrain. Something I would really like to see is a couple of destroyers stationed at some of those narrow passages to attempt to stop me from getting through. Would be great fun.

Same here, I don't like that vast expanse from Pearl to Luzon, there's just too much goodness around Java and Celebs, you're right. I seem to catch minelayers and assorted cruisers lurking around southern Celebs area sometimes too...

That one choke point is crazy though, that's my 'go to' area if I'm having a slow patrol. I was watching a merchant through the scope once, when WAY off on the horizon I saw another one taking the same track...

I think six is the most I've got in that area in a short amount of time...

And yea, it's not uncommon to be almost or half out out of torpedoes before even reaching the patrol area.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sevrin

Same here, I don't like that vast expanse from Pearl to Luzon, there's just too much goodness around Java and Celebs, you're right. I seem to catch minelayers and assorted cruisers lurking around southern Celebs area...

That one choke point is crazy though, that's my 'go to' area if I'm having a slow patrol. I was looking at a merchant crossing the scope about to shoot once, when WAY off on the horizon I saw another one taking the same track...

I think six is the most I've got in that area in a short amount of time...

Problem is...if there were traffic very close to the real thing you would tire of it quickly. There is an attempt to make the traffic realistic but also to a point were you do not spend weeks seeing nothing. You would have to agree that would really suck after a while. Just for craps and giggles...remember the traffic jam in stock. Compare it to what you have now? Less traffic but enough to keep it fun.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Problem is...if there were traffic very close to the real thing you would tire of it quickly. There is an attempt to make the traffic realistic but also to a point were you do not spend weeks seeing nothing. You would have to agree that would really suck after a while. Just for craps and giggles...remember the traffic jam in stock. Compare it to what you have now? Less traffic but enough to keep it fun.

Exactly, it's a tough act to balance. Not enough traffic and folks say 'nothing to shoot', too much and it's 'too easy'.

[AVGWarhawk]

To be honest Sevrin, I did use RSRD and did not find traffic. I then just used TMO that had some reworked traffic. I find more ships. Being my time is limited and I do get to sit and play, finding a vessel to sink in that short hour is at a premium. If I had a lot of time to play I would use RSRD all the time. RSRD is a top mod in my book and I enjoyed watching Lurker build it and I enjoyed using it more.

Looks like in the newest version of the TMO beta he's done some re-working with the traffic layer, think I'll give that a shot and see what's up.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I think this were you are getting tonnage were tonnage is not due. In my pixel world opinion.

Since I'm only engaging lightly armed (ie small) ships with the deck gun, or using it to finish crippled ships off (which is correct), take say 20% of my tonnage off the top if you feel badly about it. I personally don't. Most of my kills are with the torpedoes anyways. Still leaves my score far higher than was ever possible, again, without ever seeing an enemy warship outside of a harbor.

Anyways, the deckgun was always meant to be an offensive weapon, even clear back to WWI. True, it fell out of favor with the US fleet for a time, but that does not mean it's there as an ornament. Submarines where just too damn small for that, not to mention the drag penalty underwater.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Problem is...if there were traffic very close to the real thing you would tire of it quickly. There is an attempt to make the traffic realistic but also to a point were you do not spend weeks seeing nothing. You would have to agree that would really suck after a while.

I don't agree at all. To me, this is a sim and I would rather have realistic traffic. Time compression takes care of not having very many contacts anyways. The trouble with what you're saying is that it basically amounts to this:

The historically accurate large convoys in rsrd are great, but I want something to shoot at. This results in having the convoys where and when they're supposed to be but sea is swarming with solo ships. In other words, the ratio of contact types is totally screwed. Sorry, but the individual merchant spam is not fun, it's tedious target practice.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Just for craps and giggles...remember the traffic jam in stock. Compare it to what you have now? Less traffic but enough to keep it fun.

I don't think there's really less traffic at all. Just less multiship contacts.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I find more ships. Being my time is limited and I do get to sit and play, finding a vessel to sink in that short hour is at a premium.

And I'm sure that's *exactly* why the stock campaign throws so many contacts down your throat. I'm willing to bet that *proportionally* the stock contacts are just simply more realistic. What I mean by that is in stock you might encounter something like this (these numbers are just rough estimates based solely on my experiences):

5% Task force
20% Larger convoy
40% small convoy
10% hunter killer
25% single ship

(not counting sampans and aircraft and such)

In rsrd, the proportions ballance out to something like this:
1% Task forces
1% Larger convoy
1% small convoy
97% single ship

Those RSRD numbers might come out different if I could even make it to the patrol zone with ammo left consistantly, but not happening in the asiatic fleet anways.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

Since I'm only engaging lightly armed (ie small) ships with the deck gun, or using it to finish crippled ships off (which is correct), take say 20% of my tonnage off the top if you feel badly about it. I personally don't. Most of my kills are with the torpedoes anyways. Still leaves my score far higher than was ever possible, again, without ever seeing an enemy warship outside of a harbor.

Anyways, the deckgun was always meant to be an offensive weapon, even clear back to WWI. True, it fell out of favor with the US fleet for a time, but that does not mean it's there as an ornament. Submarines where just too damn small for that, not to mention the drag penalty underwater.



I don't agree at all. To me, this is a sim and I would rather have realistic traffic. Time compression takes care of not having very many contacts anyways. The trouble with what you're saying is that it basically amounts to this:

The historically accurate large convoys in rsrd are great, but I want something to shoot at. This results in having the convoys where and when they're supposed to be but sea is swarming with solo ships. In other words, the ratio of contact types is totally screwed. Sorry, but the individual merchant spam is not fun, it's tedious target practice.



I don't think there's really less traffic at all. Just less multiship contacts.



And I'm sure that's *exactly* why the stock campaign throws so many contacts down your throat. I'm willing to bet that *proportionally* the stock contacts are just simply more realistic. What I mean by that is in stock you might encounter something like this (these numbers are just rough estimates based solely on my experiences):

5% Task force
20% Larger convoy
40% small convoy
10% hunter killer
25% single ship

(not counting sampans and aircraft and such)

In rsrd, the proportions ballance out to something like this:
1% Task forces
1% Larger convoy
1% small convoy
97% single ship

Those RSRD numbers might come out different if I could even make it to the patrol zone with ammo left consistantly, but not happening in the asiatic fleet anways.

Well you answered your own question. RSRD reduces traffic over stock but perhaps increased singletons by up to 97%. Not sure how you arrived at that figure but at any rate, it keeps the game interesting but not overly crazy with traffic. As far as the cannon, sinking ships after hitting it with one torpedo is not how it was done in RL and I hope you are not playing it that way. Doctrine stated sending out 3 torpedoes to assure a hit and hopeful sinking. Use magnetic only until instructed to switch to impact. Your cannon is for defense only. Again, find a list of ships sunk by cannon fire concerning US subs. Let me know when you find it.

Now, you do have the ability to change the traffic to your liking. RSRD is work done by Lurker who painstaking added all major engagements for you to witness and perhaps take part in. Until then you spend you time sinking singletons so you do not get bored to tears. Not a bad formula IMO. Also, if you do not reach your patrol zone the game considers your command a failure. So blowing through your torps on the way to your patrol zone is a bad idea.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

As far as the cannon, sinking ships after hitting it with one torpedo is not how it was done in RL and I hope you are not playing it that way.

You sure make a lot of assumptions about how I play without having ever seen me actually do so. I just hope that it's simply a matter of my score seems impossibly higher than yours and you're trying to figure out how, and not the other more obvious reason. Get my drift?

To respond to that; no, I fire spreads of 2, 3 or 4 depending on:
Submarine type (number of tubes)
Torpedo Type
Year
Target Type

In the eary war years, it's almost always 3 or 4 torpedoes unless firing stern tubes on a boat that only has 2. Once the torpedoes get reliable, I tend to fire 2 at a smaller target. Any more is just a waste if you know how to shoot straight. Also, you may be interested to note that all those S-boat kills where done without using the tdc, because it shouldn't have one.

And no, the deck gun was not there for ornamentation. Like all weaponry, (even the .30 cal machine guns stowed in the conning tower that can't actually be used in game) it's used when the tactical situation says that it's the best course of action. No more, no less. You go ahead and do whatever research you feel you must. I've already done a lot of that for this thread and I'm busy.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well you answered your own question. RSRD reduces traffic over stock but perhaps increased singletons by up to 97%. Not sure how you arrived at that figure but at any rate, it keeps the game interesting but not overly crazy with traffic.

No, it doesn't reduce traffic at all. Just removes the convoys puts new ones in and leaves the singles alone. At least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting. Does not keep the game interesting at all, it's just target practice. You may as well just load and play this day in and day out (click me). If you ask me, once you know how to shoot straight, that's just dull. I don't understand what you don't get about this? BTW, wasn't really a question in that.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Also, if you do not reach your patrol zone the game considers your command a failure. So blowing through your torps on the way to your patrol zone is a bad idea.

That's a gamey justification if I ever heard one. Unless command had a special reason for sticking you there (like a suspected invasion fleet moving through the area which you would be briefed on), I would think command would be overjoyed that you sank enough ships to make the trip worthwhile regardless of whether you reached the designated patrol zone or not. You do not win a war by avoiding any and all targets of opportunity. In fact, if you did that, I think you just might be looking at a mutiny or at least a severely damaged reputation. Anyways, what I do to make the game happy is go to the patrol zone and wait the required time to complete the objective, even if I have no ammo.