Where are the jobs?

Stealth Hunter · 10-31-09, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Back on topic

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...tor-abuse.html

Lol, ABC. "Political punch".

SteamWake · 10-31-09, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Lol, ABC. "Political punch".

Thats strange I thought it was Kool Aide...

Platapus · 10-31-09, 10:50 AM

I am sure that I am not the only citizen that is intellectually "from Missouri"

I won't believe what either a Republican nor a Democrat tells me any more. They are all politicians which means they have an agenda.

Show me the data.

Democrats say they have created x number of jobs
Republicans say they have not

Show me the data

Democrats say the new health plan won't increase the deficit
Republicans say it will

Show me the data.

Republicans and Democrat politicians, you have lied to me too often to take anything any of you says at face value.

Show me the data please.

SteamWake · 10-31-09, 10:53 AM

They arent going to show you the time of day unless mandated to do so.

You will just have to go find it for yourself.

Platapus · 10-31-09, 10:58 AM

I agree and there is a buttload of data about our government online, you just have to know where to dig for it.

My point is that if either side wants to get "the public" on their side, emotional rhetoric may no longer be the way. I think more people can come online if the sides start educating the people with the data instead of adopting the traditional "If you are a Republican/Democrat you should believe what a Republican/Democrat tells you"

As an independent I don't believe either out of hand.

CaptainHaplo · 10-31-09, 11:31 AM

Platypus,

I can't "show you the data" on what they based the claim on, but I can give you some info on where it was derived from. I think I posted about this previously.

I have a friend who owns his own business. He got an order that came with a single page questionaire from some "department" of the government - it wasn't labor, I just can't recall the name of it right now. I will check and get it for you if needed.

Anyway, the form just asked how many jobs were created, how many jobs were saved with the order, how many jobs were sustained by the order, etc. The firm placing the order needed him to fill it out because they were using stimulus money to pay for it. His business was doing fine without the order, so he answered as honestly as he knew how, and put 0 for "saved", "sustained" and 0 for "created" as well.

A couple of weeks later, he got a phone call from someone with that same "department" that told him he obviously misunderstood the questions because he filled them out all wrong. After he assured them that his business was firm without the order, they accepted that no jobs had been saved. They struggled over the "creation" part a litle, continually asking him if he had hired anyone during the time the order came in to when it was filled. He had, though the position (sales rep) had nothing to do with filling the order, yet they insisted that met the requirements for a "job created" by the order. The real sticky one was "jobs sustained" - because they wanted to know how many people "touched" the order, for the secretary who answered the phone, to the person who set the box on the dock for the delivery carrier to pick up. According to this department's criteria, every person's job involved was "sustained" because it took them some time - from seconds to hours - to do the job.

Needless to say, the criteria for what amounts to a "sustained" job are set in such a manner that no matter what the real result was, the numbers look good for those that want them to.

longam · 10-31-09, 03:48 PM

http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/a9recoveryjobs.aspx

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) Jobs

jumpy · 10-31-09, 06:35 PM

Dunno about you yankey-doodles, but us stiff-upper-lips are faring well, according to the guy in my sig

(and you all know what I think of him).

There's 'thousands' of jobs every week apparently... As I'm currently waiting to receive income based Jobseekers Allowance (I've been waiting for a decision for the last 6 weeks) I have access to the fabulous range of exciting opportunities for the financially challenged.
These 'thousands of jobs' mostly include weird positions that require such a narrow skill-set that the mind boggles as to who actually has the qualifications for such jobs - Diversity Manager? wtf is that?
Other jobs are the sort that only bored housewife's, who's husbands are the bread winners and who have grown-up children and need something to occupy a couple of hours a week to supplement the housekeeping money. Not the kind of thing you could actually earn a living from...

Not to mention all of those fantastic job adverts that are what I call 'non-jobs' - when you get the advert from the jokecentre and ring the number to apply for the job, you discover that what has just cost you time and a half hour phonecall later (sitting in one of those 'your call is important to us cues') is not actually a job at all! What you are in fact doing is applying for a potential job, not an actual job; you're applying to register for notification of jobs that don't actually exist yet

How cool and forward thinking is that? I'm sure it looks great for the figures that are thrown about like so much confetti by over-paid politicians, but it's damn annoying for anyone who actually wants a real job.

Our current DWP employment system is like the emperors new clothes; all of the sycophants and government and departmental toadies extol the virtues of how great the system is (having no direct experience of it themselves) but the rest of us who futilely try to navigate its tortuous byways, see right through it to the rather sad and dangly soft under-parts.

10-31-09, 10:50 AM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I am sure that I am not the only citizen that is intellectually "from Missouri" I won't believe what either a Republican nor a Democrat tells me any more. They are all politicians which means they have an agenda. Show me the data. Democrats say they have created x number of jobs Republicans say they have not Show me the data Democrats say the new health plan won't increase the deficit Republicans say it will Show me the data. Republicans and Democrat politicians, you have lied to me too often to take anything any of you says at face value. Show me the data please. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-31-09, 10:53 AM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	They arent going to show you the time of day unless mandated to do so. You will just have to go find it for yourself. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

10-31-09, 10:58 AM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I agree and there is a buttload of data about our government online, you just have to know where to dig for it. My point is that if either side wants to get "the public" on their side, emotional rhetoric may no longer be the way. I think more people can come online if the sides start educating the people with the data instead of adopting the traditional "If you are a Republican/Democrat you should believe what a Republican/Democrat tells you" As an independent I don't believe either out of hand. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-31-09, 11:31 AM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Platypus, I can't "show you the data" on what they based the claim on, but I can give you some info on where it was derived from. I think I posted about this previously. I have a friend who owns his own business. He got an order that came with a single page questionaire from some "department" of the government - it wasn't labor, I just can't recall the name of it right now. I will check and get it for you if needed. Anyway, the form just asked how many jobs were created, how many jobs were saved with the order, how many jobs were sustained by the order, etc. The firm placing the order needed him to fill it out because they were using stimulus money to pay for it. His business was doing fine without the order, so he answered as honestly as he knew how, and put 0 for "saved", "sustained" and 0 for "created" as well. A couple of weeks later, he got a phone call from someone with that same "department" that told him he obviously misunderstood the questions because he filled them out all wrong. After he assured them that his business was firm without the order, they accepted that no jobs had been saved. They struggled over the "creation" part a litle, continually asking him if he had hired anyone during the time the order came in to when it was filled. He had, though the position (sales rep) had nothing to do with filling the order, yet they insisted that met the requirements for a "job created" by the order. The real sticky one was "jobs sustained" - because they wanted to know how many people "touched" the order, for the secretary who answered the phone, to the person who set the box on the dock for the delivery carrier to pick up. According to this department's criteria, every person's job involved was "sustained" because it took them some time - from seconds to hours - to do the job. Needless to say, the criteria for what amounts to a "sustained" job are set in such a manner that no matter what the real result was, the numbers look good for those that want them to. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-31-09, 06:35 PM	#8
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Dunno about you yankey-doodles, but us stiff-upper-lips are faring well, according to the guy in my sig (and you all know what I think of him). There's 'thousands' of jobs every week apparently... As I'm currently waiting to receive income based Jobseekers Allowance (I've been waiting for a decision for the last 6 weeks) I have access to the fabulous range of exciting opportunities for the financially challenged. These 'thousands of jobs' mostly include weird positions that require such a narrow skill-set that the mind boggles as to who actually has the qualifications for such jobs - Diversity Manager? wtf is that? Other jobs are the sort that only bored housewife's, who's husbands are the bread winners and who have grown-up children and need something to occupy a couple of hours a week to supplement the housekeeping money. Not the kind of thing you could actually earn a living from... Not to mention all of those fantastic job adverts that are what I call 'non-jobs' - when you get the advert from the jokecentre and ring the number to apply for the job, you discover that what has just cost you time and a half hour phonecall later (sitting in one of those 'your call is important to us cues') is not actually a job at all! What you are in fact doing is applying for a potential job, not an actual job; you're applying to register for notification of jobs that don't actually exist yet How cool and forward thinking is that? I'm sure it looks great for the figures that are thrown about like so much confetti by over-paid politicians, but it's damn annoying for anyone who actually wants a real job. Our current DWP employment system is like the emperors new clothes; all of the sycophants and government and departmental toadies extol the virtues of how great the system is (having no direct experience of it themselves) but the rest of us who futilely try to navigate its tortuous byways, see right through it to the rather sad and dangly soft under-parts. __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

10-31-09, 03:48 PM	#7
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/a9recoveryjobs.aspx American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) Jobs