Where are the jobs?

SteamWake · 10-31-09, 07:57 AM

Back on topic

Quote:

Posting its results late this afternoon at Recovery.gov, the White House claimed 640,329 jobs have been created or saved because of the $159 billion in stimulus funds allocated as of Sept. 30.

Officials acknowledged the numbers were not exact, saying that states and localities that reported the numbers have made mistakes.

Quote:

Brian Schmidt, director of planning and programming for the commission said that his staff originally reported to the Obama administration that the stimulus money saved 250 jobs. Then, realizing they had mistakenly double credited, they later changed that to 125 jobs. Tuesday, they updated it again to 74 jobs.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...tor-abuse.html

Stealth Hunter · 10-31-09, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Back on topic

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...tor-abuse.html

Lol, ABC. "Political punch".

SteamWake · 10-31-09, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Lol, ABC. "Political punch".

Thats strange I thought it was Kool Aide...

Platapus · 10-31-09, 10:50 AM

I am sure that I am not the only citizen that is intellectually "from Missouri"

I won't believe what either a Republican nor a Democrat tells me any more. They are all politicians which means they have an agenda.

Show me the data.

Democrats say they have created x number of jobs
Republicans say they have not

Show me the data

Democrats say the new health plan won't increase the deficit
Republicans say it will

Show me the data.

Republicans and Democrat politicians, you have lied to me too often to take anything any of you says at face value.

Show me the data please.

SteamWake · 10-31-09, 10:53 AM

They arent going to show you the time of day unless mandated to do so.

You will just have to go find it for yourself.

Platapus · 10-31-09, 10:58 AM

I agree and there is a buttload of data about our government online, you just have to know where to dig for it.

My point is that if either side wants to get "the public" on their side, emotional rhetoric may no longer be the way. I think more people can come online if the sides start educating the people with the data instead of adopting the traditional "If you are a Republican/Democrat you should believe what a Republican/Democrat tells you"

As an independent I don't believe either out of hand.

CaptainHaplo · 10-31-09, 11:31 AM

Platypus,

I can't "show you the data" on what they based the claim on, but I can give you some info on where it was derived from. I think I posted about this previously.

I have a friend who owns his own business. He got an order that came with a single page questionaire from some "department" of the government - it wasn't labor, I just can't recall the name of it right now. I will check and get it for you if needed.

Anyway, the form just asked how many jobs were created, how many jobs were saved with the order, how many jobs were sustained by the order, etc. The firm placing the order needed him to fill it out because they were using stimulus money to pay for it. His business was doing fine without the order, so he answered as honestly as he knew how, and put 0 for "saved", "sustained" and 0 for "created" as well.

A couple of weeks later, he got a phone call from someone with that same "department" that told him he obviously misunderstood the questions because he filled them out all wrong. After he assured them that his business was firm without the order, they accepted that no jobs had been saved. They struggled over the "creation" part a litle, continually asking him if he had hired anyone during the time the order came in to when it was filled. He had, though the position (sales rep) had nothing to do with filling the order, yet they insisted that met the requirements for a "job created" by the order. The real sticky one was "jobs sustained" - because they wanted to know how many people "touched" the order, for the secretary who answered the phone, to the person who set the box on the dock for the delivery carrier to pick up. According to this department's criteria, every person's job involved was "sustained" because it took them some time - from seconds to hours - to do the job.

Needless to say, the criteria for what amounts to a "sustained" job are set in such a manner that no matter what the real result was, the numbers look good for those that want them to.

longam · 10-31-09, 03:48 PM

http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/a9recoveryjobs.aspx

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) Jobs

10-31-09, 10:50 AM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I am sure that I am not the only citizen that is intellectually "from Missouri" I won't believe what either a Republican nor a Democrat tells me any more. They are all politicians which means they have an agenda. Show me the data. Democrats say they have created x number of jobs Republicans say they have not Show me the data Democrats say the new health plan won't increase the deficit Republicans say it will Show me the data. Republicans and Democrat politicians, you have lied to me too often to take anything any of you says at face value. Show me the data please. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-31-09, 10:53 AM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	They arent going to show you the time of day unless mandated to do so. You will just have to go find it for yourself. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

10-31-09, 10:58 AM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I agree and there is a buttload of data about our government online, you just have to know where to dig for it. My point is that if either side wants to get "the public" on their side, emotional rhetoric may no longer be the way. I think more people can come online if the sides start educating the people with the data instead of adopting the traditional "If you are a Republican/Democrat you should believe what a Republican/Democrat tells you" As an independent I don't believe either out of hand. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-31-09, 11:31 AM	#7
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Platypus, I can't "show you the data" on what they based the claim on, but I can give you some info on where it was derived from. I think I posted about this previously. I have a friend who owns his own business. He got an order that came with a single page questionaire from some "department" of the government - it wasn't labor, I just can't recall the name of it right now. I will check and get it for you if needed. Anyway, the form just asked how many jobs were created, how many jobs were saved with the order, how many jobs were sustained by the order, etc. The firm placing the order needed him to fill it out because they were using stimulus money to pay for it. His business was doing fine without the order, so he answered as honestly as he knew how, and put 0 for "saved", "sustained" and 0 for "created" as well. A couple of weeks later, he got a phone call from someone with that same "department" that told him he obviously misunderstood the questions because he filled them out all wrong. After he assured them that his business was firm without the order, they accepted that no jobs had been saved. They struggled over the "creation" part a litle, continually asking him if he had hired anyone during the time the order came in to when it was filled. He had, though the position (sales rep) had nothing to do with filling the order, yet they insisted that met the requirements for a "job created" by the order. The real sticky one was "jobs sustained" - because they wanted to know how many people "touched" the order, for the secretary who answered the phone, to the person who set the box on the dock for the delivery carrier to pick up. According to this department's criteria, every person's job involved was "sustained" because it took them some time - from seconds to hours - to do the job. Needless to say, the criteria for what amounts to a "sustained" job are set in such a manner that no matter what the real result was, the numbers look good for those that want them to. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-31-09, 03:48 PM	#8
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/a9recoveryjobs.aspx American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) Jobs