WW2 Submarine battle:USS Balao vs Type 1X UBoot: Who would win?

Zilch · 09-13-09, 08:13 AM

Whoever shoots first, I think.

I'd lean towards Balao, though. More chances of follow-up shots, heavier firepower up top, if needed, and of course I'll favor US Navy training above what was left of the Kriegsmarine at the time. I think most of their expertise got sunk in 1941. I may be wrong about this, but I think the Balao's radar and sonar were more advanced as well, increasing the chances of that first shot.

By the way, did you choose USS Becuna as your Balao picture consciously? I just had the good fortune to be able to tour that very boat recently. Vid's on youtube if anyone's interested.

Feuer Frei! · 09-13-09, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilch

Whoever shoots first, I think.

I'd lean towards Balao, though. More chances of follow-up shots, heavier firepower up top, if needed, and of course I'll favor US Navy training above what was left of the Kriegsmarine at the time. I think most of their expertise got sunk in 1941. I may be wrong about this, but I think the Balao's radar and sonar were more advanced as well, increasing the chances of that first shot.

By the way, did you choose USS Becuna as your Balao picture consciously? I just had the good fortune to be able to tour that very boat recently. Vid's on youtube if anyone's interested.

I chose the picture randomly, and i envy you in being able to tour the boat.....must have been an experience....

Zilch · 09-13-09, 09:11 AM

It was! If you're ever in Philadelphia (a very cool town to visit, I'd love to go back,) be sure to see it. It's moored right next to the cruiser, Olympia, which is the only ship of its type left in the world. Twelve dollars gets you into both!

I did a video walkthrough, but my camera was pretty lowsy. You get the idea though:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...h_query=becuna

Sorry to get off-topic...

Hitman · 09-13-09, 03:23 PM

This question has already an answer: Some IXD2 U-Boats were sunk in the Pacific by american fleet boats

However, the truth is that they were caught by surprise thanks to decryption of german transmissions, etc.

Probably the truth is simply what Zilch already said: Whoever sees and shoots first

Lt.Fillipidis · 09-13-09, 04:16 PM

Well, it depends.
If both subs were on the surface and got alarmed at the same second, the IX could man the deck gun faster due to its smaller conn tower and the distance from the hatch to the gun. (Considering that both subs' crews got out of the conning tower hatch.)

If in the given time the subs were on the surface and start the submerge procedure one minute after the alarm, as far as i know the IX is faster and that gives an advantage.

If we talk about fully submerged encounter, the Balao class has the upper hand since it has more torpedo tubes.

All the above exist only in theory.
In a given battle there are many factors that can determinate the result.
There are many battles that were won by a minor force that took advantage of every oportunity that showed up.
David and Goliath is one example.

Brag · 09-13-09, 08:34 PM

With Balz on board the Balao would be balaued into the nothingness of the lack of history.

09-22-09, 01:00 AM

This all based on perspective, but I'll give it a go.
The IXB and IXC I think are better at what they were built for sinking merchants undetected, and surviving. The IXD2 is moving into the big sub class, where range is increased at the price of many advantages. It's a balancing act and one can't have it all.
The balao is a bigger, faster, and more powerful boat. Speed and endurance go to the USN.
Technology also goes to the USN. With the radar carried on USN subs, plus the way it was mounted high up the IXD2 is at a disadvantage.
But the deciding factor in the contest is none of the above. Ultra is the deciding factor.
US and Netherlands boats win. Germany and Japan loose.
In all of WWII there was only one case of one sub sinking another while both were submerged.
An english sub sunk a german uboat.
Netherlands should never be overlooked in sub vs sub sinking.
The germans paid a fairly high toll to the dutch.
Remember who invented the snorkel.
English subs were also fairly successful uboat hunters.

09-13-09, 08:13 AM	#1
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Whoever shoots first, I think. I'd lean towards Balao, though. More chances of follow-up shots, heavier firepower up top, if needed, and of course I'll favor US Navy training above what was left of the Kriegsmarine at the time. I think most of their expertise got sunk in 1941. I may be wrong about this, but I think the Balao's radar and sonar were more advanced as well, increasing the chances of that first shot. By the way, did you choose USS Becuna as your Balao picture consciously? I just had the good fortune to be able to tour that very boat recently. Vid's on youtube if anyone's interested. __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-13-09, 09:11 AM	#3
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	It was! If you're ever in Philadelphia (a very cool town to visit, I'd love to go back,) be sure to see it. It's moored right next to the cruiser, Olympia, which is the only ship of its type left in the world. Twelve dollars gets you into both! I did a video walkthrough, but my camera was pretty lowsy. You get the idea though: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...h_query=becuna Sorry to get off-topic... __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

09-13-09, 03:23 PM	#4
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	This question has already an answer: Some IXD2 U-Boats were sunk in the Pacific by american fleet boats However, the truth is that they were caught by surprise thanks to decryption of german transmissions, etc. Probably the truth is simply what Zilch already said: Whoever sees and shoots first __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

09-13-09, 08:34 PM	#6
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	With Balz on board the Balao would be balaued into the nothingness of the lack of history. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

09-13-09, 04:16 PM	#5
Lt.Fillipidis Weps Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Veria, Greece Posts: 365 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Well, it depends. If both subs were on the surface and got alarmed at the same second, the IX could man the deck gun faster due to its smaller conn tower and the distance from the hatch to the gun. (Considering that both subs' crews got out of the conning tower hatch.) If in the given time the subs were on the surface and start the submerge procedure one minute after the alarm, as far as i know the IX is faster and that gives an advantage. If we talk about fully submerged encounter, the Balao class has the upper hand since it has more torpedo tubes. All the above exist only in theory. In a given battle there are many factors that can determinate the result. There are many battles that were won by a minor force that took advantage of every oportunity that showed up. David and Goliath is one example.

09-22-09, 01:00 AM	#7
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	This all based on perspective, but I'll give it a go. The IXB and IXC I think are better at what they were built for sinking merchants undetected, and surviving. The IXD2 is moving into the big sub class, where range is increased at the price of many advantages. It's a balancing act and one can't have it all. The balao is a bigger, faster, and more powerful boat. Speed and endurance go to the USN. Technology also goes to the USN. With the radar carried on USN subs, plus the way it was mounted high up the IXD2 is at a disadvantage. But the deciding factor in the contest is none of the above. Ultra is the deciding factor. US and Netherlands boats win. Germany and Japan loose. In all of WWII there was only one case of one sub sinking another while both were submerged. An english sub sunk a german uboat. Netherlands should never be overlooked in sub vs sub sinking. The germans paid a fairly high toll to the dutch. Remember who invented the snorkel. English subs were also fairly successful uboat hunters.