CIA used mock executions etc.

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Shouldn't the Americans all be you know, Mormons or Jehova's witnesses? I mean, those are their religions, invented by them? Why are Americans taking a mostly European religion and then perverting it? And more importantly why are you sending those ****ing Mormons and Jehovas into Europe?

It's that pesky freedom thang. You wouldn't understand.

[Jimbuna]

If anyone feels like a little time out from this:

Originally Posted by August

It's that pesky freedom thang. You wouldn't understand.

Yea I get it. That door swings both ways though.

But tell me, as a 'christian', who would Jesus torture? I mean, besides the capitalist money lenders.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Shouldn't the Americans all be you know, Mormons or Jehova's witnesses? I mean, those are their religions, invented by them? Why are Americans taking a mostly European religion and then perverting it? And more importantly why are you sending those ****ing Mormons and Jehovas into Europe?

For someone who has the morality to denounce the use of torture, you also show that belittling other people religions isn't beneath you at all.

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

For someone who has the morality to denounce the use of torture, you also show that belittling other people religions isn't beneath you at all.

You should've heard what I told the last two Jehova's witnesses that came to my door.

Btw, are you against or for torture?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Aramike

That would be like me saying that water doesn't freeze at 32F and putting the burden of proof on you to show that water DOES indeed freeze at 32F.

Quite so, I was wrong.
The burden of proof would only be on you if I made no claim about water
freezing/CIA being right.
Even so, there isn't a case for CIA infallibility.


In what way is the CIA in a unique position to find torture beneficial?

Clearly, if taken by itself (which I specifically said in the last post). Yet when considered along with other axiomatic factors the argument becomes complex and your formula becomes useless in describing it.

If the basic argument doesn't work then it still won't work; what ever
baggage you add to it.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

"Pride goes before the fall", it's a saying we have here. Not that America really has that high to fall from.

Funny, but somehow your grandoise prediction doesn't ring very true when confronted with reality.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Funny, but somehow your grandoise prediction doesn't ring very true when confronted with reality.

When it comes to torture, right? You think that torturing has a bright future in the USA?

[Aramike]

If the basic argument doesn't work then it still won't work; what ever
baggage you add to it.

Wrong.

The argument only becomes "basic" when you simplify it out of context. Sorry, but you have no authority to simplify the expression and context of an argument in order to invalidate it. Doing so changes the argument. As such, it becomes YOUR construct, and YOU end up only arguing against yourself.

Dude, give it a rest.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Wrong.

The argument only becomes "basic" when you simplify it out of context. Sorry, but you have no authority to simplify the expression and context of an argument in order to invalidate it. Doing so changes the argument. As such, it becomes YOUR construct, and YOU end up only arguing against yourself.

Dude, give it a rest.

How about you take a break from trying to defend torture? How about a little bit of that, eh?

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Also, what they talk about in the article, about shooting a gun in the next room and telling the person that they shot a person. That's also typical stuff from the School of Americas. They used to play a tape of women and children screaming in the next room and tell the person that it's his wife and children being tortured/killed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8219307.stm

"CIA agents threatened to kill a terror suspect's children as part of interrogation techniques, a newly declassified report has revealed."

Who told you first? What? Who?

I'm telling you I know this stuff. I'll tell you one more thing, we haven't reached the bottom of the US scum bucket yet, we're not even halfway yet. There'll be more of this stuff so better prepare ya'll.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

When it comes to torture, right? You think that torturing has a bright future in the USA?

Umm, I was referring to "the fall", as you wrote it. Not torture.

But see, what really makes you look foolish is this idea you have that, not only do some of us approve of the use of certain forms of torture in interrogations, but that we actually like it.

I don't like it. I doubt anyone here does. But, I don't find personal distaste to be the northern point on my moral compass, either.

See, frankly I'm sure you think that all of us who support limited applications of torture, under very strict guidelines, to be morally bankrupt. To that I say, oh well. Frankly, if my position is morally bankrupt, YOURS is morally DEPRAVED.

You would literally limit yourself on extracting information from a known terrorist in custody to whatever that person feels like saying, even to the risk and detriment of countless civilians. And, you'd do it just because going any further makes you feel queasy.

Hell, I'd even go for drugs to be used on such people in lieu of waterboarding, etc ... but that's torture too...

You can hate us all you want while reveling in your own percieved intellectual superiority in your little irrelevant corner of the world ... but it isn't going to change how the world really works. Somehow, we've managed to prosper as a nation of 60X the population of yours along with all of the diversity and associated problems. And we keep coming out on top.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8219307.stm

"CIA agents threatened to kill a terror suspect's children as part of interrogation techniques, a newly declassified report has revealed."

Who told you first? What? Who?

I'm telling you I know this stuff. I'll tell you one more thing, we haven't reached the bottom of the US scum bucket yet, we're not even halfway yet. There'll be more of this stuff so better prepare ya'll.

Yeah, umm, so?

Did the CIA actually have those children at gunpoint? Did they actually kill the children? No??? Wow!

Must have been emotionally awful to hear that for the terror suspect. Like I give a damn.

First you're crying about the physical well-being of terrorists. Now you want them to be emotionally comfortable too. What next, a suite at the top of the Hyatt?

The whole hidden pattern of torture is being revealed and stuff like the Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, extraordinary renditions and now this are all parts of. And more will be revealed.

The US 'stocks' are declining in the world, has been for decades. I see no change in that trend except maybe a quicker spiral down. Population figures vs. Finland won't change that, unfortunately I think it's the other way around.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The whole hidden pattern of torture is being revealed and stuff like the Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, extraordinary renditions and now this are all parts of. And more will be revealed.

The US 'stocks' are declining in the world, has been for decades. I see no change in that trend except maybe a quicker spiral down. Population figures vs. Finland won't change that, unfortunately I think it's the other way around.

Sure buddy. You seem to be intent upon proving the rest of us that you have no idea what you're talking about, and the whole basis of your arguments are an anti-US bias. Were you abused as a child by an American or something?

Your sense of righteous indignation has no credibility for the reasons I said early on in this thread.