Sea Shepards ram Japanese whaling ship

You're falling over the edge. This ironic derogation of yours that you've listed has nothing to do with true SS policy against whalings.

Are all those policies on the Sea shepherd website?

OK maybe that isn't clear enough , perhaps those wierd views are just written by some fruitcake who posted in the visitors comments section.

So.....Are those the views of the founders and leaders of this lunatic organisation as published by them on their own website which aims to promote their views and their values.

You fell over the edge when you voiced support for these idiots and their actions.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Are all those policies on the Sea shepherd website?

OK maybe that isn't clear enough , perhaps those wierd views are just written by some fruitcake who posted in the visitors comments section.

So.....Are those the views of the founders and leaders of this lunatic organisation as published by them on their own website which aims to promote their views and their values.

You fell over the edge when you voiced support for these idiots and their actions.

Look, if you want just to rant yourself up go ahead. But you're getting weak on weight arguments mate. You're just pathetic now..

Yeah and just because you asked about the website and policy existance here it is: http://www.seashepherd.org/
Maybe you'll learn something you did not knew. Sorry but I really got bored to pick with bald people at the moment.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Know much about ships do you ?

The SS is still out there so I guess your prediction is far from coming true. Or should I even say, false.

Wow , that makes sense
So you support violent idiots and hate the US, you really are putting up a good arguement here.

Violence as in killing people or hurting people? Nope. That's something the US government takes part in on a regular basis. But I do understand that these ecogroups aren't always as universal as they claim to be. If you follow the money you'll see that some of them target specific companies etc. However I would still give the SS the benefit of doubt in this respect since they have opposed US whaling as well.

Edit. Then again Ireland isn't the most should I say ecologically oriented nation in the world so I can sort of understand where you are coming from.

Equality Statement

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society operates internationally without prejudice towards race, color, nationality, religious belief, or any other consideration except for an impartial adherence to upholding international conservation law to protect endangered marine species and ecosystems.
Those illegal operations that we oppose routinely attempt to accuse Sea Shepherd of being anti-Japanese, anti-Native American, or anti-Scandinavian etc, for our opposition to illegal whaling or the killing of dolphins. We are accused of being anti-Canadian or anti-African for opposing the slaughter of seals. We have been accused of being anti-Latino for opposing illegal South American shark finning operations.
Nothing could be further from the truth. We do not oppose Japanese or Norwegian whaling we oppose illegal whaling as defined under international conservation law. We do not oppose Canadian or Namibian sealing, we oppose the killing of seals.
Sea Shepherd operates outside the petty cultural chauvinism of the human species. Our clients are whales, dolphins, seals, turtles, sea-birds, and fish. We represent their interests.
Our volunteer crewmembers come from all over the world including from the nations that we are forced to oppose such as Japan, Norway, and Canada.
We are not anti-any nationality or culture. We are pro-Ocean and we work in the interests of all life on Earth. We only oppose criminals and criminal operations.

Source: http://www.seashepherd.org/who-we-ar...statement.html

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Contact

Equality Statement
Sea Shepherd Conservation Society operates internationally without prejudice towards race, color, nationality, religious belief, or any other consideration except for an impartial adherence to upholding international conservation law to protect endangered marine species and ecosystems.

In the United States, IIRC for better or worse, there is a legal concept that whether you are discriminatory is based on results. Thus, even w/o obvious signs of discrimination, if the resulf of a certain policy affects for better or worse a group much more than others, then the policy IS legally discriminatory unless one can show otherwise, or show why the discriminatory policy should be permitted due to necessity.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We do not oppose Japanese or Norwegian whaling we oppose illegal whaling as defined under international conservation law. We do not oppose Canadian or Namibian sealing, we oppose the killing of seals.

For better or worse, for whaling there's only apparently an agreement, not a law nor a treaty. Even if it DID have the status of law, both countries are apparently at least staying technically legal. One might say something about staying "technically" legal, but that's what happens when "laws" that don't fit the needs of particular parties are passed under duress (thanks to America) - the aggrieved parties obey only minimally, and Norway just used its right to object, since the US apparently didn't have the convenient leverage to lean on them so hard.
And since it is not illegal, what's left?

[Skybird]

The problem here, like quite often, is that protest only is considered as acceptable as long as it is done in a way that enforces no change or consequences to what the protest is directed against. In other words: let them talk and wave posters as long as they want - if only it does not change anything.

Fact is the Japanese are betraying the global public about whaling since years and decades. They are liars on this, and quite blatant liars indeed, and they spend ridiculous sums and efforts on international corruption and bribary to buy votes of others nations (who often have no interest in whaling at all) when whaling decisions are about to be made. Fact also is it is not so much about eating whale meat (most younger Japanese do not like it!) but national pride of not bowing to international pressure, resulting in a policy of stubborness. The Japanese government had to conduct a huge promotion campaign some years ago to advertise eating whale products in Japanese media. It is more a "cultural thing" than a thing of taste. But their yearly headless mass-slaughtering of dolphins on the beach also is a cultural thing.

I spit on such cultural things, and I throw my disgust and anger in their face over that bloodthirsty event.

Either you have a principal thing with killing animals and eating them, or you have not. If the latter, you have a responsibility nevertheless to serve your eating habits and spending your life in such a way that you do not take more from the global ecosphere and do not more damage to it than it can replace and regenerate. And here is the problem. Because our fishing habits, amongst many other of our lethal habits, habe emptied the oceans and brought many species close to or beyond the brink of extinction.

Whaling factories are like other death factories on land. But usually there is no violent protest against killing chicken, swine, and cattle in these factories.

I have a problem with the way we bring paintings of Bosch to life in such death factories, to feed our oh so precious masses. That'S why I have reduced my meat consumation to a very, very low level. We could not feed these masses of humans without industrialised, centralised farming, to think that would be possible by means of "bio" strategies alone is naive. Not to mention the desatrous energy balance regarding turning crop and water, into meat. Fromm that perspective alone it makes no sense at all.

Which brings me to an old argument of mine that cannot be disconnected from any discussion of ecologic issues, and is a very dominant anchor point and key issue to adressing problems of shortening sweet water reserves, food, climate change: 7 billion human people on earth are simply too much. We are too damn many people, and we kill our host - the planet - like a virus is killing it's host - an infected organism - too. At least we kill those parts of it that are vital for higher lifeform's existence, including ourselve.

Legally, Sea Shepard may travel on dangerous ground. But morally they hold the superior ground over the Japanese, and any other whaling nation. Which means that the legal basis and the laws being used on such an incident do not reflect morally valid values, making the legal situation a problem in itself - that is true for both the act of ramming a ship - and also the Japanese whalers cheating the public with their scientific BS excuses. the solution can only be the government bringing whaling to a total zero and bringing the fisherman into different work. That fishermen worldwide need to feed their families cannot be an excuse until the end of time to help destroying the ecosphere in the ocean, beside all the other industrial damage we are doing to it. The criterion is "Nachhaltigkeit", what is the English word for that? another criterion is the ammount of terror we bring upon other intelligent, feeling life forms, and the ammount of suffering we make them subject to when taking profit of their existence.

A law is just an arbitrary rule. It can be just, or unjust. It can be morally valid, or it can be immoral. A law can be unappropriate for a given issue, due to absence of a better suited law. Laws can collide with other laws, lowering or increasing the resulting legal damage.

I will not openly applaud Sea Shepard, but I have sympathy for their cause and their determination as well. Which makes me tolerating their action. that may be somewhat unthankful, maybe, but I am sure those subscribing to such tactics know in advance that they will be seen as a necessary evil at best, and never receive applaus from the oh so civilised world.

Thank you Skybird, I completely agree with every single line you wrote. It is always a pleasure to read your thoughts that are layed in series so precisly and delivered to reader in calm, without strong emotions way.
This is something I admire since I'm too hothead to do it myself. Appreciating it

[Skybird]

[blush response]

[Aramike]

I agree with you Skybird in that the human population has become unsustainable. However, nature (both human and otherwise) seems to have run out of solutions. Sadly enough, we have to accept that for the problem to be rectified there needs to be a disaster.

Onto whaling, I am as morally repulsed by it as anyone else. But I am equally (if not more) morally repulsed by the vigilante actions of a group that is doing NOTHING if not raising sympathies and support for the Japanese whalers. Any group that equivocates animal life with human life deserves no support!

For instance, I am a donating member of the ASPCA, but I'd never be aligned with those nuts from PETA. The SS group reminds me of a more extreme version of PETA and have claimed the sinking of several ships. To that end, what have they accomplished? They've inconvienienced the Japanese, perhaps - but they are still going to get their whales. And if the point is to take some sort of idiotic revenge for a humanized animal, they've done nothing more than make the rest of us rational thinkers stop and wonder - "who're the bad guys?"

Indeed, one can say that protest without direct action seems pointless or more acceptible, but one must ignore the fact that protest has driven much change throughout the centuries. But in any case, if you are going to take action, you should be sure that it's meaningful and supported - and won't backfire upon your cause.

Look, if you want just to rant yourself up go ahead. But you're getting weak on weight arguments mate. You're just pathetic now..

Well I must say that I didn't think it would be so easy , I really thought dedicated fruitcakes would put up more of a believable arguement.
So then one tough herring are you ridiculously attempting to deny that all those policies I mentioned are on the sea shepherd website?
Are you really attempting to say that Paul Watsons editorial conmmentary published on that website on Friday May 4th 2007 is a figment of my imagination?
Or is it that you simply have no idea how bat**** crazy these loonies are?

Then again Ireland isn't the most should I say ecologically oriented nation in the world so I can sort of understand where you are coming from.

Wow , so you not only have a silly racist thing about America but also about Ireland...thats a good measure.

The SS is still out there so I guess your prediction is far from coming true. Or should I even say, false

Or should you ?
The removal of Dutch registration is currently ongoing, all previous efforts to remove registration for violation of maritime law have been succesful.
Do you really ridiculously believe that the Dutch will somehow violate maritime law for a bunch of nutters

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Wow , so you not only have a silly racist thing about America but also about Ireland...thats a good measure.

I wasn't talking about race as much as the environmental politics of nations or more the lack of any. Unfortunately Ireland doesn't rank very high when it comes to nations that take care of nature.

Or should you ?
The removal of Dutch registration is currently ongoing, all previous efforts to remove registration for violation of maritime law have been succesful.
Do you really ridiculously believe that the Dutch will somehow violate maritime law for a bunch of nutters

For the third time, I'll believe it when I see it. Wonder if fourth time will be needed.

With the support that the SS recieves I would consider them to be in the mainstream of environmental movements. With their own show on Animal Planet and support from big names such as the Dalai Lama I see no reason not to support them.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

I wasn't talking about race as much as the environmental politics of nations or more the lack of any. Unfortunately Ireland doesn't rank very high when it comes to nations that take care of nature.



For the third time, I'll believe it when I see it. Wonder if fourth time will be needed.

With the support that the SS recieves I would consider them to be in the mainstream of environmental movements. With their own show on Animal Planet and support from big names such as the Dalai Lama I see no reason not to support them.

Might I point out that having their own show is to promote Animal Planets ratings and get more funding for themselves(Animal Planet not SS). Shock and Awe sell quite well to the populous. And as for the Dalai Lama he is the leader of a Theocratic government in exile. Would anybody listen to the Pope and the Catholic Church if they got kicked out of the Vatican?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Would anybody listen to the Pope and the Catholic Church if they got kicked out of the Vatican?

The vatican has been in exile several times in history. At times it became
disorganized; usualy because there was more than one pope, but it still kept a
good deal of it's authority and was certainly listened to.

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Might I point out that having their own show is to promote Animal Planets ratings and get more funding for themselves(Animal Planet not SS). Shock and Awe sell quite well to the populous. And as for the Dalai Lama he is the leader of a Theocratic government in exile. Would anybody listen to the Pope and the Catholic Church if they got kicked out of the Vatican?

Ok I'll remember that next time the US has difficulties paying back it's debts to China and tries to use the Tibet - issue to attack China.

Unfortunately Ireland doesn't rank very high when it comes to nations that take care of nature.

Thats true, take the Saimaa ringed seal for an example.
It only lives in Irish waters and is on the critical list of endangered species as its population is unable to breed at a level that will reduce the threat of total extinction...yet the Irish government refuses to ban the fishing which kills these seals year after year because it would upset the locals.
I am so glad your country doesn't face these problems or you would look very silly complaining about other countries.

For the third time, I'll believe it when I see it. Wonder if fourth time will be needed.

You shouldn't have to wait to long, the papers were submitted by the minister at the end of June so should work their way through the Dutch system by October.