is the Obama Care money issue this simple?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Well, the other side of the coin is I don't see many Americans leaving the USA to get health care abroad.

I remember some years back, Americans going to the Soviet Union for inexpensive Radial Eye surgury.


Their all on disability now. Legally Blind.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Correct. That's why I said "not many". When they do, it always seems to be something radical in mind they seek. Most don't seek health care abroad because what they get here is better for the most part (routine health care and procedures).

Very true. The FDA and Surgeon General preclude some procedures or medications thus forcing some to try different methods in other countries.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Cuba, healthcare? Cuba is not really known for healthcare. Cigars and old cars maybe.

Cuba has a well-established internationally popular healthcare system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthc...nal_healthcare

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yes of course thats why people from all over the world come to the US for care.

http://yedda.com/questions/Canadian_...1869107797311/

Canada - 33 million people.
USA - 300 million people.

Inside those two populations, and those two systems, you will find anecdotal evidence for just about anything.
I would argue that, on balance, the Canadian system comes out on top because it's services are open to all citizens, not just those with insurance. Those who pay for healthcare there are not trying to avoid paying at all costs.


Also, the link you posted is wrong-headed.

Here are some excerpts from Canadian Press about the Socialized Health in Canada. Again this is what Obama and the American media don't want Americans to know. This is the health care coming to the United States under the Obama plan.

The most likely plan to emerge from committee stage will be nothing like the Canadian system. Obama is not working for a system mirroring that of Canada.

EDIT - I love the Danger Danger Capitalisation.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Cuba has a well-established internationally popular healthcare system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthc...nal_healthcare

Well...in my world Cuba is not know for healthcare. Cigars and old cars come from Cuba. I'm not sure how Cuba looks in the Ruins of Europe. When I think healthcare..Cuba does not make the list. I think you will find that with most folks when asked.

[Tchocky]

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.

I'm not saying Cuba is a model nation for healthcare, I'm echoing what Max147 is saying, that many people travel to Cuba for healthcare, mostly from latin America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.

I'm not saying Cuba is a model nation for healthcare, I'm echoing what Max147 is saying, that many people travel to Cuba for healthcare, mostly from latin America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba

Well when compared to other countries in Latin America I suppose that Cuba is a shining bastion of modern healthcare. As opposed to say Hati

[Tchocky]

Higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US. Just sayin;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_...ionary_indices

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US. Just sayin;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_...ionary_indices

And I wouldn't want to live in or participate in the health care systems of either Canada or Cuba. Just sayin....

And from practical experience, most of my fellow Americans seem to agree as they aren't exactly rushing your borders for health care. It's actually quite the opposite.

[Platapus]

Reminds me of what a reporter said after the Savings and Loan Scandal.

"why should the taxpayer pay for the bailout, let the federal government pay for it"

[Max2147]

The US healthcare system is great - if you can pay for all of it.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets. For those people, the US is generally the best option. Americans who are rich enough to travel abroad for healthcare can usually afford the best care here, so they don't need to travel.

The people who get screwed by the American healthcare system are those who can't afford to travel abroad for care. Those people would be better off under a European-style system, but they can't afford to go to Europe for healthcare.

That said, I have plenty of friends who have been in countries with socialized medicine for other reasons, and had to use their systems. All of them have raved about the quality of care and the low cost.

In countries with single payer systems there is still the option for private insurance for those who can afford it. But the public option is so good that almost nobody uses the private option.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Max2147

The US healthcare system is great - if you can pay for all of it.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets. For those people, the US is generally the best option. Americans who are rich enough to travel abroad for healthcare can usually afford the best care here, so they don't need to travel.

The people who get screwed by the American healthcare system are those who can't afford to travel abroad for care. Those people would be better off under a European-style system, but they can't afford to go to Europe for healthcare.

That said, I have plenty of friends who have been in countries with socialized medicine for other reasons, and had to use their systems. All of them have raved about the quality of care and the low cost.

In countries with single payer systems there is still the option for private insurance for those who can afford it. But the public option is so good that almost nobody uses the private option.

This. There is truth in the above statement.

Well...in my world Cuba is not know for healthcare.

Perhaps you should visit the wider world for a look.

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.

There is a limit placed on the number of US doctors who are allowed to get their training in Cuba.
If I recall correctly its only 200 doctors a year.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets.

More and more US companies are providing their employees with foriegn health treatment as part of their cover , its cheaper than using the current expensive bloated system in the States.

And from practical experience, most of my fellow Americans seem to agree as they aren't exactly rushing your borders for health care. It's actually quite the opposite

Numbers don't back that up , a single Asian hospitals yearly intake of US health tourists manages to nearly equal the the entire number of health tourist the US recieves.

[AVGWarhawk]

I realize every country has their success stories and their horror stories when it comes to health care. What vibes I'm getting are few but probably a concern of most.

1. Enough doctors and general practioners for all?
2. Doctors call the shots or a pencil pusher in DC?
3. If you do not pay into the system do you still get the health care benefits? (that right there is my biggest issue, free ride crap needs to stop)
4. ref #3, illegals get a piece of the action?

These are my concerns. Any others that might want to chime in?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

This. There is truth in the above statement.

My best friend who went with new wife to visit inlaws in Netherlands had a back injury there and a inlaw relation took him to her local Dr. They fixed him up no charge.

The system work then. 80's

Not a chance here.