Supplement to SH Survey: What should Ubi do to make SH5 the best?

[NeonSamurai]

More or less what the others said other then the pay more for the game idea, that would seriously kill sales, especially in this economy.

I would also like to see improved radio options and extensive radio messages, Assignments on patrol, weather reports, reports from other subs on their success.

Anything else that would increase immersion, like my character actually being physically represented on the ship, the ability to walk around and interact. The ability to use the captains quarters, sleep in the bed, have the crew wake me if they need me (that could be time compression). Write an extensive log, have everything accessible by being able to walk over and click it.

I also wouldn't mind having the pacific and atlantic together, but that may not be possible. I don't really want playable the subs of nations that didn't do a whole lot with them, as that's just a waste of dev time. A couple of human pilotable destroyers for multiplayer probably wouldn't go amiss either, but shouldn't be a focus (this is a sub sim).

Oh and better weather, more realistic, and realy nasty storms.

Almost forgot, a proper weapons officer, that is neither perfect, nor gives instant calculations. I would love to be able to call out (or have him set) the tdc based on my settings for example. Voice recognition would be great too.

[Pisces]

Here's my take:

0. Bugs. Keep the patches comming if there are still obvious gameplay bugs present. Crash-free doesn't mean it works ok. Go the extra mile to create quality.

1. Accurate physics: Curved earth and propper rendering of it (over the horizon visuals/radar), propper newtonian mechanics(inertia and collision effects), Euler-rotational dynamics, speed of sound delays of explosions, flooding based damage/sinking, diving with user controlled-trimming/ballast (maybe realism option). Full speedrange propellor-RPM vs. screwnoise modelling. Thermal-layer simulation even if it wasn't discovered yet at the time.

2. Better technology modeling and user interface:Manual targeting as was performed, like split-prism optics AS the Germans used it (Range and AOB measurement combined). Gyrocompass synchronised Fixed-Line-Through-Space in periscope. Accurate clock readout/timezone and stopwatch use in every screen. Sextant for celestial navigation, true sun/moon/stars and planets. Keep the map and drawing tools as-is (made SH3 a winner for me), but don't forget editable text-fields in marks! War-diary/captain's log.

3. Built-in randomness in i.e. range reports from crew/sensors, based on crew fitness/experience/AI. Better yet, make the variability modable, as accurate readings are a good thing during testing! A helmsman that keeps his course.

4. Keep the Sh3 campaign type. But with Wolvepacks (AI). Make land objects just as real as scripted or random layer.

Note: nothing to add in the graphics department. Good enough, and the above is more important for immersion.

[LukeFF]

I could post a very lengthy list, but these are the most important issues to me:

• Crew members that are transferred off the boat after each patrol. This should be especially true for crewmen who have accrued a good amount of experience.
• When the player takes command of a new submarine, it should also come with a new crew (unlike the current situation, where the crew follows the player from sub to sub like a little puppy dog ).
• A proper watch system for each side. While the 3-watch system works just fine for American subs, it's not how it worked for the Germans, who used a two-watch system.
• More strict requirements for moving externally-stowed torpedoes below decks. This includes factors like how rough the sea is and severe penalties for trying to dive while moving a torpedo below decks (such as loss of the torpedo and the handling gear needed to move the torpedo).
• Have the campaign track whether a major warship has been sunk or not. If I sink a Yamato class BB, then the game should remove one of these ships from the "roster," never to be seen again. As a consequence, the campaign engine should compensate accordingly when the ship is due to be generated later in the campaign (e.g., if a convoy calls for two Yamato class BBs, and one has already been sunk, then only one will be generated.
• Better evasive maneuvers for lone merchant ships. The current constant-helming routine is very lacking and too predictable.
• Historically correct depth charge settings.
• Proper reporting procedures for radar contacts. "Single contact?" What is it, a ship or an airplane? Is it moving towards us? Moving away? Also, if the radar is a non-directional type (like SD radar) don't report a bearing!
• More commands for the sonarman. The player should be able to select any contact picked up by sonar and order the sonarman to follow it. The nearest merchant/warship contact isn't always the one the player wants to track.
• Similar to the above, but as it relates to the bridge watch: I should be able to select any given ship and ask what the range to it is.
• Ready ammo for the deck gun.
• A deck gun scope that bobs up and down and isn't gyro-stabilized like it is now.
• Reports from the bridge as to when the weather is worsening or improving.
• More authentic damage reports from the crew. Seriously, how does my diving officer know our deck gun has been damaged when we're 250 feet below the surface? Deck mounted items (guns, radar antennas, radar detectors), simply put, should only be reported as damaged when the boat is on the surface.
• Aircraft that fly and attack like ASW aircraft should, not radio-controlled planes just buzzing around waiting to be shot down.
• A ship damage model that doesn't rely on a simple hit-point system but one that depends on torpedo placement and location of damage.

What I would really like is for things to work! My biggest gripes with SH3 (after installing GWX, which addressed most of my complaints, and is how the game should have shipped from the factory) are bugs that never got fixed. I want to be able to save without being surfaced and without being in the middle of nowhere. I can't count how many times I've spotted a ship or been getting DC'd and had to stop playing for one reason or another. My only option is to pause the game and leave my computer running until I can come back to the game. I don't want the game to crash when I click on a button that's meant to be clicked. That sort of thing.

A three-shift crew rotation would be great. I've heard that SH4 improves over SH3 in crew management, but that it still doesn't work quite right. Right now I play with fatigue turned off because it's such a huge hassle.

Better crew management and performance would also be really great. I'd like to see my crews performance increase as their experience increases. It would also be nice if I could see that bootsman so-and-so has an aptitude with the diesels (making me want to give him mechanics qualification next time we're in port) or that Klaus from Hamburg has a great ear and would make a good hydrophone man.

More free-roaming would be a bonus. Little things like going up to the bridge or climbing down the ladder before a dive would be great eye candy. The instantaneous "popping" from bridge to command room reduces my immersion.

I'm not sure if I would personally use it or not, but I think it would be cool to model currents and have a "real navigation" option, where you actually have to use dead reckoning and shoot stars to find your position. How cool would it be to have to fight the current coming through the straight of Gibraltar (or being able to drift on it if going east)? Obviously, the head of the boat shouldn't have to handle the minutae of navigation, but the navigator also shouldn't know *exactly* where the ship is if there are no landmarks and we haven't seen the stars in a week.

Speaking of that...the absolute precision of other crew members should be dumbed down a bit too. Maybe my exec can't identify every single ship, or maybe he even identifies them incorrectly. Maybe the watch officer thinks that ship to starboard is about 5000 meters away rather than knowing that it's exactly 4725 meters away.

I would love to see mechanical failures and breakdowns, especially later in the war. Some U-boat histories have vessels setting sail and returning a day or two later for repairs multiple times in a row. This would be neat to simulate. Kiel didn't have enough parts to overhaul the diesels this time...plan for trouble!

I would really like to hear when/if a ship sends off a distress signal after I torpedo it. Not only would it add to immersion, but it would give me the name of the ship for my patrol log. Similarly, it would be awesome if the radio messages were more interactive. Perhaps when another U-boat is sunk I might get dispatched to look for survivors. Maybe I even get sent to pick up a downed pilot.

Lastly, all of these things need to be able to be turned on or off by the user. This will allow SH5 to cater to the hard-core simmers while also allowing armchair kaluens to play a light, fun sub game without getting killed on their first patrol.

[KeptinCranky]

1st a round world....

2nd as lukeFF said, Realistic tracking of sinking of historical ships and their sinkings, not just when player sinks them but also appearance dates based one historical data... this could also go for the names of sunk mechants to some extent (generated names only available after they were used, especially important for Liberty ships and others built during the war)

2nd (again) the more historical accuracy the better

3rd (or possibly first) better weather, I didn't feel sh4's weather was an improvement at all

just my 2 cents

[Annatar]

*Full dynamic campaign is a necessity.

*WOLFPACKS

*Functional Aircraft carriers, with the aircraft able to take off, perform ASW, spotting, combat etc... and then hopefully return to land back on the carrier deck.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Have the campaign track whether a major warship has been sunk or not. If I sink a Yamato class BB, then the game should remove one of these ships from the "roster," never to be seen again. As a consequence, the campaign engine should compensate accordingly when the ship is due to be generated later in the campaign (e.g., if a convoy calls for two Yamato class BBs, and one has already been sunk, then only one will be generated.

And this.

[LukeFF]

One that I forgot:

Please make sure the crew limits are appropriate for each navy simulated. For the Germans, this means:

• Enlisted: Matrose to Matrosenobergefreiter
• Junior Petty Officers: Maat and Obermaat
• Senior Petty Officers: Feldwebel to Stabsoberfeldwebel
• Cadets: Fahnrich and Oberfahnrich
• Officers: Leutnant and Oberleutnant

For the Americans:

• Enlisted: Apprentice Seaman to Seaman 1st Class
• Junior Petty Officers: Petty Officer 3rd Class to Petty Officer 1st Class
• Senior Petty Officers: Chief Petty Officer
• Officers: Ensign to Lieutenant

[martes86]

Ohhhhh juicy thread, let's get started with MY ideas...

-Dynamic campaign
-A TDC station for the TDC alone, like in SH2. (TVR - Torpedovorhaltrechner in German )
-Extended interiors and more interior interactiveness (cool if doors could close at will)
-Resurrect the SH2 possibility to call the lights red/white, or just turn them off to sleep, and keep the battlestations possibility
-No sailors "popping up" out of nowhere, have them walk
-Separate engine management (please make it so that the engine lights blink when changing the setting)
-Manual dive planes management/ordering
-Improved multiplayer:
· Multistation games (several players in one sub/ship)
· Direct IP connectivity possibilities
· LAN games
· Improved game chat
· Improved spectating
· Surface ships! (but true individual per player ships, not just a guy managing the whole escort group). Part of the slow death of MP is because we're always playing against the AI, unlike SH2/DC
-Surface ships! (again, lol). It'd be great if they got the same level of detail as the subs in all regards (interiors, gameplay...)
-Mantain SH4's watch crew mechanics, but reinstate SH3's management screen, and have them leave positions and go elsewhere when not really needed (i.e., electro-machinists not needed on the surface), or at least, that they don't get fatigued too much when not working
-Ability to relieve of duty anyone, and leave his station empty
-Possibility to walk as in a FPS around the sub (make an option to switch it off, for faster gaming)
-Keep SH4's hull-holing ability
-Keep SH3/4's ability to get asked if ship should submerge, engage, or stay put when spotting a contact, and give a fourth option to have the watch do as they see fit considering each situation
-Implement a replay or a cinematic mode (for making videos without having to steer the ship)
-Retake SH3's ability to have each officer do his thing, and not just have the Engineer get all the options like in SH4, and make each officer look at you again and properly confirm your command
-Make a good logbook. I expect to see date and time of departure, and what ships I've sunk so far. When I return to port, I expect to see all that, plus date arrived in port, and number of days at sea during that patrol. Also make it possible that we can write our own entries like in SH2, and that each log gets outputed to a txt file (like in SH2 too)
-Make planes do realistic length flights, not just appear out of the blue at a certain influence distance from the sub
-Make it so that, depending on the speed, it actually variates how fast you submerge, and also make it realistic on deep dives, where it is hard to mantain the sub trimmed, and so constant corrections are needed
-Ability to call a "Clear the bridge" command, so that we can choose to stay alone on watch the whole time, or even call the dive at a later stage, making the dive a much faster process opposite to having to wait for everyone to come down
-Realistic simulation of all items secured for dive (like say, close the hatches, close the diesel exhausts...), and disallow dive if for whatever reason, those items can't be secured (like no one in the diesels closing the exhausts or a damaged hatch)
-Mantain the abilities to send progress and status reports (and that the enemy can intercept them, or your allies -in MP-), and (for MP too, or SP ships) make it possible to communicate ship to ship with light signaling or flag signaling
-UBERMODDABILITY!!!! My dream would be Source-engine-like modding capabilities, that include reprogramming functionalities or putting in new ones (I'm a professional programmer, so...), but if that's out of the question, then allow for modding of already existing units and models (and sub interiors), sounds, textures, campaigns and missions, and the possibility of adding new units, models (and sub interiors), sounds, textures, campaigns and missions, and provide a top-notch SDK. And please, make a good mission editor, so that we can make good scripted missions (good for SP tournaments) within the dynamic campaign layer, make it user friendly, and add some serious trigger system (event-based, time-based, activation-based, objective-based... you name it) support
-And a very cool concept I've thought of... that the career mode makes you able to start from a planesman to a watch officer, and even make it to commander of a sub (or surface ship, please don't forget about that!).



Ok... midnight in Spain, gotta go to bed, I've got a daily job to wake up for. But I'll be posting more ideas if I think of more, or if someone in the 24th needs some help with translations. For the moment, whoever reads this at Ubi won't need any brainstorming sessions for some time. :rotfl:

Cheers

[Seeadler]

what would make it great
1. A dynamic campaign with more dynamic than the free choice to decide where I go. The effectiveness of the wolfpacks should be impact on the behavior and routes of convoys

2. Functional wolfpacks! Hey, the old DOS game "Aces of the Deep" had them and they had worked.

3. A multiplayer with player controled destroyers. Only one type of MP destroyer and MP submarine is enough for the release, more could be delivered in addon's. Radar, sonar on the destroyer should functionally implemented not only a command sim like in SH4 multiplayer.

4. Better modding ability. Tools for the customers to import new content f.e. harbour layouts should not be so realistic but give the modders the chance to complete this work like the scenary modders do it for the fligh simulator community

what mistakes from SH3/SH4 not to repeat
1. Don't push the game out before it's finished
2. Not announced on the website that there are plans to release modding tools (still on the SH3 website ) and then never let it happened.

[lurker_hlb3]

"Historically accurate" Dynamic campaign for both PTO/ATO along with all the necessary ships / subs / aircraft

[JScones]

-OPTIMISED CODE! SH4 went part way there
-Accurate AI
-SH3 Commander (incl Crew Manager and Patrol Log Editor) functionality built in, especially date based changes. SH4 went part way there. I think it is fair to say that if it's in SH3Cmdr, it's because there was a community demand for it. Adding a Nightclub feature (for example) is a simple few hours work but makes a big difference
-Ease of modding, including ability to add new subs and nationalities (ie British, Dutch, Japanese)
-Improved crew management - I have a Chief Warrant Officer, let him do his job of micromanaging crew rotations, discipline, admin paperwork (transfers) etc
-Accurate ranks, including JNCOs
-Medals/badges awarded as per historical criteria and timelines

[Kapt Z]

If it's another u-boat sim then it must have wolfpacks. Better AI would be nice, but a u-boat game without wolfpacks is really missing so much.

My single biggest gripe about SH3.

[kiwi_2005]

Have access to all compartments in the submarine. Have options where if we wish we can head to the engine room to start the motors - Ive always wanted to do that, or load torpedos in the aft/bow. Ive always wanted to do that too! There's a AI character in every compartment which we can take over when needed. For instance if motors need fixing we double click on the engine room guy and we're now him grab the spanner and get to fixing the motors, start the motors this might include pressing a few swtiches. Want to load a torpedo? no problem just double click on the torpedo guy and get to it by clicking a switch to work the winch that picks up the torpedo and with another flick of the button the torpedo slides into the tube then we have to let the captain know through the speaker that the torpedo is being loaded etc., All in 3d not on a 2d screenie. This can be a choice to either let the AI perform the tasks or we can.

Would also like to see deep under water canyons, or when close to the shore there's reefs etc.,. At the moment we can dive and never have to worry about hitting any enviromental threat (except for the seafloor) thats in the waters. Surely it wasn't all plain and flat where getting close to an enemy shore to attack a port should not only be a feat from avoiding the escorts but also keeping in mind of what Mother nature might put in our way.

I know sounds abit to crazy but thats how i would like the next sub sim to be!

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

Originally Posted by Seeadler

2. Functional wolfpacks! Hey, the old DOS game "Aces of the Deep" had them and they had worked.

This would be the largest addition to the Silent Hunter series. Even in single player campaigns, work in coordination with AI - controlled Uboats as a pack. They radio a contact report, and you find it. You find a convoy, radio in and the AI Uboats show up. You would receive renown for however many AI uboats show up for the attack. That way you have incentive not to leave the targets all to yourself and you have a reason to risk HF/DF detection later in the war.

That leads to another suggestion - the AI controlled Uboats need to fire torpedoes. Uboats attacking convoys on the surface with a deckgun never would have happened.

One more suggestion - Larger convoys. In the war, these convoys were easily 2x the size of what I see now in SH3. And the spacing is too narrow.
This does not allow for the classic torpedo boat tactics Doentiz drilled into his men from the beginning. With larger convoys and more spacing, the destroyers are not grouped as tight to reinforce each other. This allows the Uboat player to slip between the gaps of the escort screen, penetrate into the meat of the convoy and do that voodoo that Kretchmer did sooo wellll.

[Fenris_Wolf]

Here are my suggestions for SH5.

- SH4 had better graphics than SH3. Thats always a good thing. I want SH5 with DX10.
- Freedom of choice. Immersion. Please take a look at great mods like GWX and other great mods. See how they have worked on and improved every small detail. Simming is important down to the last detail. See all the work they did to make it so realistic. Immersion is what makes a game so great. Sound effects, voices, gramaphone tracks, the role playing option from SH3 Commander adds great depth and immersion.
- My submarine. is extremely important to me. If I honor a new sub and take it out for a ride, it best not suddenly get crushed at a freaking 50m depth! I'm sorry but there's no way I can get myself hooked to such a game. No matter how nice all its other aspects are.
- My Theatre of operation. In SH3 there was plenty of choice. The harsh Atlantic weather. The calm Mediterranean. The Havanas for some warm weather. The freezing northern seas. Etc. What could be better than this?
- Please ignore all the political pressure, forget politics, politicians or any such apprehensions or else you would be stuck with little to no choice! Because we always expect a kickass game from you guys with the most awesome machinery and wonderous stuff in it that is not only worthy of the Silent Hunter title but also upholds its reputation and lives up to our expectations. It better have more room than anyone's imagination.
- Campaigns and gameplay. Not only it has to be realistic, there should also exist the great thrill of the hunt! I want my enemies to bring it on. I want those destroyers to do their best and stop me. I want a challenge. When I chew through their convoys and their mightiest warships, I want to experience a directly proportional vengeance which should be evident on its own that all the old men in their navy sat together to think of a way to stop me. I want them to mobilize their entire fleets just for me if I'm sinking far too much of their tonnage each patrol with just my boat. I want them to send their UFOs at me when I shoot down a few dozen of their airplanes in just a week.

Make it so.