Man Reveals He Assisted Parents' Suicides 10 Years Ago

SUBMAN1 · 03-10-09, 08:14 PM

Since we are on medical topics today, what are people thoughts on assisted suicide?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/sto...6801446&page=1

The Netherlands has already shown that assisted suicide is a slippery slope that has led to non-voluntary, what is is called, euthanasia? Maybe it should be called murder...

-S

jeremy8529 · 03-10-09, 08:16 PM

Whats that I smell?? Is that bait? With a..... hook in it?!

SUBMAN1 · 03-10-09, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy8529

Whats that I smell?? Is that bait? With a..... hook in it?!

What makes you think that? I'm looking to see what people think about it.

-S

Etienne · 03-10-09, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy8529

Whats that I smell?? Is that bait? With a..... hook in it?!

Heh, it's Subman1 posting on subsim GT. It's not really trolling because, well, it's part of the landscape. Tehcnically speaking, he's just posting an article for discussion, but anyone who's been around these parts know that it will devolve into a no-hole-barred name calling fest, in which none of the party will ever come close to changing their mind. Here's an illustration:

The thing is, once in a blue moon, the thread will turn into an interesting discussion of the subject matter. So we kind of deal with the chaff just in case. A lot of people have just given up on the political threads around here.

Of course, most of them will Godwin out, or involve muslims somehow. It's kind of like watching a gory car accident - A threadwreck, if you will.

Welcome to GT.

A Very Super Market · 03-10-09, 09:37 PM

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the GT forums.

SUBMAN1 · 03-10-09, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

Heh, it's Subman1 posting on subsim GT. It's not really trolling because, well, it's part of the landscape. Tehcnically speaking, he's just posting an article for discussion, but anyone who's been around these parts know that it will devolve into a no-hole-barred name calling fest, in which none of the party will ever come close to changing their mind. Here's an illustration:

The thing is, once in a blue moon, the thread will turn into an interesting discussion of the subject matter. So we kind of deal with the chaff just in case. A lot of people have just given up on the political threads around here.

Of course, most of them will Godwin out, or involve muslims somehow. It's kind of like watching a gory car accident - A threadwreck, if you will.

Welcome to GT.

I rarely get into the things you suggest, so your point being?

-S

Etienne · 03-10-09, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

The Netherlands has already shown that assisted suicide is a slippery slope that has led to non-voluntary, what is is called, euthanasia? Maybe it should be called murder...

Euthanasia "refers to the practice of ending a life in a painless manner" (Wiki).

Murder "is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide." (Same)

Suicide "is the intentional taking of one's own life." (Same. I'm lazy.)

There can't be such a thing as non-voluntary assisted suicide. It becomes either euthanasia, if legal (And really, is anyone advocating that on humans, except for some far fetched fring group?) or manslaughter / murder, depending on the legal context.

I don't really see how allowing someone to end their own life can directly lead to SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

It shouldn't be easy, and it shouldn't be taken lightly. But it should be an option. Able people are free to end their own life at any time, after all.

SUBMAN1 · 03-10-09, 09:50 PM

You forgot the non-voluntary part. That is why I put in there 'murder'.

An example - man is deaf dumb and blind. Is it murder or euthanasia here if we end his pathetic life non-voluntarily?

Anyway, I was reading where the the assisted suicide has morphed into non-voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands. This is why I'm asking the question. It didn't start out in the Netherlands as euthanasia. It has morphed into it through the introduction of assisted suicide. Sounds like a major slippery slope to me. Say in 50 years that I can hardly walk? Is that going to happen to me? To my family? To my friends? To you? I want no part of this I would think.

-S

Etienne · 03-10-09, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You forgot the non-voluntary part. That is why I put in there 'murder'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

There can't be such a thing as non-voluntary assisted suicide. It becomes either euthanasia, if legal (And really, is anyone advocating that on humans, except for some far fetched fring group?) or manslaughter / murder, depending on the legal context.

And is this thread about non-voluntary euthanasia, or assisted suicide? Those are two entirely different things.

SUBMAN1 · 03-10-09, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You forgot the non-voluntary part. That is why I put in there 'murder'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

There can't be such a thing as non-voluntary assisted suicide. It becomes either euthanasia, if legal (And really, is anyone advocating that on humans, except for some far fetched fring group?) or manslaughter / murder, depending on the legal context.

And is this thread about non-voluntary euthanasia, or assisted suicide? Those are two entirely different things.

No it is not two different things. Holland started out as assisted suicide. Now they also perform euthanasia because it has become accepted. Read my above post. That is the problem here. That is why I started the thread. I don't like the idea of assisted suicide, but one does not need to participate in it. Euthanasia has crossed another line that is ten times as big. We can only look to Europe for our answers because they are father along with morally objectionable things than we are, and I have yet to see a case where the US of A followed Europes lead in this department and the same pitfalls didn't happen here as it did there. Maybe you have seen one where this is not the case? If so, I'd say that is a rarity.

This is why the thread. i want to see peoples thoughts on the subject. Euthanasia is part of that subject. It is next in line after assisted suicide takes its grip. Especially with the cheapness of life of an individual these days.

-S

Morts · 03-11-09, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

Heh, it's Subman1 posting on subsim GT. It's not really trolling because, well, it's part of the landscape. Tehcnically speaking, he's just posting an article for discussion, but anyone who's been around these parts know that it will devolve into a no-hole-barred name calling fest, in which none of the party will ever come close to changing their mind. Here's an illustration:

The thing is, once in a blue moon, the thread will turn into an interesting discussion of the subject matter. So we kind of deal with the chaff just in case. A lot of people have just given up on the political threads around here.

Of course, most of them will Godwin out, or involve muslims somehow. It's kind of like watching a gory car accident - A threadwreck, if you will.

Welcome to GT.

I rarely get into the things you suggest, so your point being?

-S

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:.....yeah..umm..right

Sailor Steve · 03-11-09, 10:17 AM

On the downside, your reputation comes from things like the murder comment, or the "...are all idiots" in the title of your other thread. It shows an willingness to stoop to name-calling and dismissal as opposed to actual discussion. As the old saying goes, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

I do have some thoughts on the subject, but after that beginning I think I'll keep them to myself.

Digital_Trucker · 03-11-09, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

On the downside, your reputation comes from things like the murder comment, or the "...are all idiots" in the title of your other thread. It shows an willingness to stoop to name-calling and dismissal as opposed to actual discussion. As the old saying goes, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

I do have some thoughts on the subject, but after that beginning I think I'll keep them to myself.

After that beginning, we need some real thoughts on the subject, Steve.

Personally, I think it is a slippery slope to start heading down. We saw the same with abortion. It started out as a method of stopping unwanted pregnancies from incest and rape and as a method of protecting the life of the mother in severe medical emergencies and has graduated into a "right" to be used as after the fact birth control.

Assisted suicide could very well morph into euthenasia here, as well. I'm not fond of the idea.

Sailor Steve · 03-11-09, 02:04 PM

Okay. First, I disagree about abortion. Abortions have been with us as long as there have been people, and the criminalization of abortion, at least in the Western world, is a fairly recent phenomenon (I've been told that in some ancient societies abortion was punishable by death).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97may/abortion.htm

As for Euthenasia, I don't know. Assisted suicide is a thorny question in itself. Suicide is technically illegal, but only if you fail. Physicians assisting someone in ending a life that is already full of pain and suffering, and who will die soon anyway, is a tricky question. Is it a slippery slope?

I don't know.

Digital_Trucker · 03-11-09, 03:23 PM

Interesting links about abortion, Steve, thanks. Perhaps I'm a bit too biased about the subject (like many of us who like to argue the subject) to be objective about it's origins and the reasons for its legalization and its current place in our society. I only called it as I saw it, albeit through jaded eyes.

Prudence and forethought regarding the legalization of any medical practice that hastens death is, IMO, necessary. After all, isn't the sole purpose of medicine to prolong life and alleviate suffering (sometimes opposing goals).

03-10-09, 08:14 PM	#1
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Man Reveals He Assisted Parents' Suicides 10 Years Ago Since we are on medical topics today, what are people thoughts on assisted suicide? http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/sto...6801446&page=1 The Netherlands has already shown that assisted suicide is a slippery slope that has led to non-voluntary, what is is called, euthanasia? Maybe it should be called murder... -S __________________

03-10-09, 08:16 PM	#2
jeremy8529 A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Etowah TN Posts: 79 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Whats that I smell?? Is that bait? With a..... hook in it?! __________________

03-10-09, 09:37 PM	#5
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the GT forums. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

03-10-09, 09:50 PM	#8
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You forgot the non-voluntary part. That is why I put in there 'murder'. An example - man is deaf dumb and blind. Is it murder or euthanasia here if we end his pathetic life non-voluntarily? Anyway, I was reading where the the assisted suicide has morphed into non-voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands. This is why I'm asking the question. It didn't start out in the Netherlands as euthanasia. It has morphed into it through the introduction of assisted suicide. Sounds like a major slippery slope to me. Say in 50 years that I can hardly walk? Is that going to happen to me? To my family? To my friends? To you? I want no part of this I would think. -S __________________

03-11-09, 10:17 AM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	On the downside, your reputation comes from things like the murder comment, or the "...are all idiots" in the title of your other thread. It shows an willingness to stoop to name-calling and dismissal as opposed to actual discussion. As the old saying goes, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." I do have some thoughts on the subject, but after that beginning I think I'll keep them to myself. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-11-09, 02:04 PM	#14
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Okay. First, I disagree about abortion. Abortions have been with us as long as there have been people, and the criminalization of abortion, at least in the Western world, is a fairly recent phenomenon (I've been told that in some ancient societies abortion was punishable by death). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97may/abortion.htm As for Euthenasia, I don't know. Assisted suicide is a thorny question in itself. Suicide is technically illegal, but only if you fail. Physicians assisting someone in ending a life that is already full of pain and suffering, and who will die soon anyway, is a tricky question. Is it a slippery slope? I don't know. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-11-09, 03:23 PM	#15
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	Interesting links about abortion, Steve, thanks. Perhaps I'm a bit too biased about the subject (like many of us who like to argue the subject) to be objective about it's origins and the reasons for its legalization and its current place in our society. I only called it as I saw it, albeit through jaded eyes. Prudence and forethought regarding the legalization of any medical practice that hastens death is, IMO, necessary. After all, isn't the sole purpose of medicine to prolong life and alleviate suffering (sometimes opposing goals). __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.