Is not moving a satellite when it could cause a collision terrorism?

XabbaRus · 02-22-09, 03:58 PM

According to this person it is...

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/20...ace-terrorism/

That is desperation...

Digital_Trucker · 02-22-09, 04:10 PM

That person needs some serious psychiatric help

Unless the Russians moved the satellite sometime shortly before the collision (which I don't believe they did), there's no way they could have known years ago that it was going to collide with anything.

I still haven't seen anything about whether the satellite was even capable of maneuvering. Guess I need to look around again on that one.

Platapus · 02-22-09, 04:15 PM

I suppose it all depends on the definition of terrorism for this individual.

I don't see it as terrorism, more like criminal negligence.

Even if it could be proved that the Russians targeted the Iridium satellite, I don't think it would qualify as a terrorist attack.

I don't know if Cosmos 2251 was capable of being deorbited either at its EOL or at the time of the collision.

In any case, perhaps it was better that the Russians did NOT deorbit Cosmos 2251

Deorbiting Russian satellite nearly knocks out jetliner
http://fortsanders.net/node/15

DOH!

baggygreen · 02-22-09, 04:16 PM

Great way to start the working morning Xabba, thanks mate

It isnt terror, thats some major anti-russkie BS right there.

What it does do is help highlight a valid point though. When your satellite carks it, it should be made mandatory that it be brought out of orbit to burn up on reentry. How difficult would that be? Not very, nothing but simple trig. That would solve an issue with the amount of junk up there, especially considering in the next couple of hundred years there will be much much more going up there

Torplexed · 02-22-09, 04:26 PM

The idea that this was a deliberate act is unlikely in the extreme. The old Russian satellite died well over 10 years ago. Since it was dead, there was no way it could be controlled, so how could it possibly be blamed for causing the collision? Unless someone wants to argue it was a sleeper satellite.

In terms of timing, this would require millisecond accuracy to cause an impact. Had either satellite arrived at the impact location even a millisecond early or late, they would've missed each other by several meters. That's a level of accuracy that's extremely hard to achieve.

In terms of producing debris, this impact was about as bad as you can get. The energy involved was amazing. It might take weeks or even months to catalog all of the pieces. I don't see any rational reason for a nation as large as Russia to screw up their own badly needed communication satellites with junk in space.

CaptainHaplo · 02-22-09, 04:26 PM

The russian satellite was not controllable. They had lost any response from it along time back.

Its not like you can just send it a signal to de-orbit. The only thing you COULD safely do is program in a timer that says if you dont get X recieved within Y period - thrust in direction Z for a specified time, breaking orbit AWAY from earth.

The problem there - these things are man made - no telling its going to get all the logic checks right and go in the right direction - or maybe it screws up and somebody misses a decimal point - now it decided to deorbit after 48 seconds vs 48 hours... oops....

You can't guarantee a machine is going to work 100% of the time. They break - on earth as well as above it.

Digital_Trucker · 02-22-09, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

In terms of producing debris, this impact was about as bad as you can get. The energy involved was amazing. It might take weeks or even months to catalog all of the pieces. I don't see any rational reason for a nation as large as Russia to screw up their own badly needed communication satellites with junk in space.

Evidently, it doesn't bother the Chinese to do the same thing (on a smaller scale) http://www.space.com/news/070202_china_spacedebris.html

Torplexed · 02-22-09, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

In terms of producing debris, this impact was about as bad as you can get. The energy involved was amazing. It might take weeks or even months to catalog all of the pieces. I don't see any rational reason for a nation as large as Russia to screw up their own badly needed communication satellites with junk in space.

Evidently, it doesn't bother the Chinese to do the same thing (on a smaller scale) http://www.space.com/news/070202_china_spacedebris.html

Good point. Debris from the Chinese ASAT test jeopardizes the three dozen or more operational satellites China has in orbit, and will endanger the crews of future Shenzhou spaceflights as well. The ironic part is that China has since accepted U.S. tracking data on potential debris threats to the Shenzhou missions.

They mess up space and then we help them navigate the mess. Go figure.

XabbaRus · 02-22-09, 05:02 PM

For anti-Russian BS that site is the best for a laugh.

I'm used to her/it/they writing some outrageous stuff on that site but that made me make a double take.

sure there are things the Russians do that aren't kosher but for some reason La Russophobe really has a stick in her behind about them.

Digital_Trucker · 02-22-09, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Go figure.

That feat is quite impossible when it comes to humans. They just aren't logical (key segway to Kapitan Phillips vulcan admonishments

).

joegrundman · 02-22-09, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Go figure.

That feat is quite impossible when it comes to humans. They just aren't logical (key segway to Kapitan Phillips vulcan admonishments

).

what does "key segway" mean?

baggygreen · 02-22-09, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Go figure.

That feat is quite impossible when it comes to humans. They just aren't logical (key segway to Kapitan Phillips vulcan admonishments

).

what does "key segway" mean?

I think he meant "cue" not key

joegrundman · 02-22-09, 08:08 PM

Aah, cue segway!

Digital_Trucker · 02-22-09, 09:43 PM

Yeah, sorry guys, the old brain doesn't work the way it used to. It did work once upon a time, I think, didn't it?

Maybe I meant press the key to cue the segway. Yeah, that's the ticket.

baggygreen · 02-22-09, 10:34 PM

No worries DT

By the way, did you mean segway or segue?

All's good mate, just joshing you

02-22-09, 03:58 PM	#1
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Is not moving a satellite when it could cause a collision terrorism? According to this person it is... http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/20...ace-terrorism/ That is desperation... __________________

02-22-09, 04:10 PM	#2
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	That person needs some serious psychiatric help Unless the Russians moved the satellite sometime shortly before the collision (which I don't believe they did), there's no way they could have known years ago that it was going to collide with anything. I still haven't seen anything about whether the satellite was even capable of maneuvering. Guess I need to look around again on that one. __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.

02-22-09, 04:15 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,379 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I suppose it all depends on the definition of terrorism for this individual. I don't see it as terrorism, more like criminal negligence. Even if it could be proved that the Russians targeted the Iridium satellite, I don't think it would qualify as a terrorist attack. I don't know if Cosmos 2251 was capable of being deorbited either at its EOL or at the time of the collision. In any case, perhaps it was better that the Russians did NOT deorbit Cosmos 2251 Deorbiting Russian satellite nearly knocks out jetliner http://fortsanders.net/node/15 DOH! __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-22-09, 04:26 PM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	The russian satellite was not controllable. They had lost any response from it along time back. Its not like you can just send it a signal to de-orbit. The only thing you COULD safely do is program in a timer that says if you dont get X recieved within Y period - thrust in direction Z for a specified time, breaking orbit AWAY from earth. The problem there - these things are man made - no telling its going to get all the logic checks right and go in the right direction - or maybe it screws up and somebody misses a decimal point - now it decided to deorbit after 48 seconds vs 48 hours... oops.... You can't guarantee a machine is going to work 100% of the time. They break - on earth as well as above it. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

02-22-09, 05:02 PM	#9
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	For anti-Russian BS that site is the best for a laugh. I'm used to her/it/they writing some outrageous stuff on that site but that made me make a double take. sure there are things the Russians do that aren't kosher but for some reason La Russophobe really has a stick in her behind about them. __________________

02-22-09, 04:16 PM	#4
baggygreen Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canberra, ACT, Down Under (really On Top) Posts: 1,880 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Great way to start the working morning Xabba, thanks mate It isnt terror, thats some major anti-russkie BS right there. What it does do is help highlight a valid point though. When your satellite carks it, it should be made mandatory that it be brought out of orbit to burn up on reentry. How difficult would that be? Not very, nothing but simple trig. That would solve an issue with the amount of junk up there, especially considering in the next couple of hundred years there will be much much more going up there

02-22-09, 04:26 PM	#5
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The idea that this was a deliberate act is unlikely in the extreme. The old Russian satellite died well over 10 years ago. Since it was dead, there was no way it could be controlled, so how could it possibly be blamed for causing the collision? Unless someone wants to argue it was a sleeper satellite. In terms of timing, this would require millisecond accuracy to cause an impact. Had either satellite arrived at the impact location even a millisecond early or late, they would've missed each other by several meters. That's a level of accuracy that's extremely hard to achieve. In terms of producing debris, this impact was about as bad as you can get. The energy involved was amazing. It might take weeks or even months to catalog all of the pieces. I don't see any rational reason for a nation as large as Russia to screw up their own badly needed communication satellites with junk in space.

02-22-09, 08:08 PM	#13
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Aah, cue segway! __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

02-22-09, 09:43 PM	#14
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	Yeah, sorry guys, the old brain doesn't work the way it used to. It did work once upon a time, I think, didn't it? Maybe I meant press the key to cue the segway. Yeah, that's the ticket. __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.

02-22-09, 10:34 PM	#15
baggygreen Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canberra, ACT, Down Under (really On Top) Posts: 1,880 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	No worries DT By the way, did you mean segway or segue? All's good mate, just joshing you