Any way to deal with the Hedgehog? - Page 2

Otto Heinzmeir · 02-22-09, 01:22 PM

Great tips. I am all for rule number one from here on out.

Hartmann · 02-22-09, 08:09 PM

Use a XXI boat in 1944

stay deeper and run at 17 knts can save you

Freiwillige · 02-23-09, 03:31 AM

Strap a trampoline to the front of your boat, Hedgehogs will bounce right back up and go boom on the destroyers! SOooo simple yet so effective!

BasilY · 02-23-09, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzs von swe

Yes, Mittel is right.
Use the standoff range of your weapons. Fire and clear datum.
If detected, pray and go deeper.
When you hear dc´s in the water change speed, course and depth. Then go back to 1 knot, always stay on silent running.
But rule no1 is: Stay away from destroyers

I don't think hedgehogs give out the "DC in water" warning...

danurve · 02-23-09, 03:11 PM

The sacrifice of tonnage for storing a few extra T-IV / T-V's is worth it.
This of course presumes your aware of your surface contacts and an escort doesn't sneek up behind your screws.

Jimbuna · 02-23-09, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzs von swe

Yes, Mittel is right.
Use the standoff range of your weapons. Fire and clear datum.
If detected, pray and go deeper.
When you hear dc´s in the water change speed, course and depth. Then go back to 1 knot, always stay on silent running.
But rule no1 is: Stay away from destroyers

I don't think hedgehogs give out the "DC in water" warning...

That's correct, they don't.

Cohaagen · 02-23-09, 04:34 PM

You lot are a bunch of wimps - imagine if the Squid mortar was modelled in game. How does a 40-50% kill ratio sound?

Freiwillige · 02-23-09, 05:22 PM

The first successful use was by HMS Loch Killin on 31 July 1944, when she sank U333. The system was credited with 17 submarines in 50 attacks.

That less than 1/3rd kill ratio. Good odds for the Kaleuns

Otto Heinzmeir · 02-23-09, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzs von swe

Yes, Mittel is right.
Use the standoff range of your weapons. Fire and clear datum.
If detected, pray and go deeper.
When you hear dc´s in the water change speed, course and depth. Then go back to 1 knot, always stay on silent running.
But rule no1 is: Stay away from destroyers

I don't think hedgehogs give out the "DC in water" warning...

You mean your suppose to be warned when DC's are in the water. hmm my hydrophone guy has never once warned me. Is this because he is too green or is there some setting to turn on for the DC in water warning?

Puster Bill · 02-23-09, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

That less than 1/3rd kill ratio. Good odds for the Kaleuns

That's 1/3rd per attack. Those kind of odds will kill you quickly. Think of Russian Roulette with 2 chambers loaded instead of one, and playing more than one round.

Still sound attractive?

danoh · 02-24-09, 12:32 AM

Well the Hedgehog was a super weapon for the Allies so it's gonna be a problem if you are facing it. Your best bet is to understand how it works, how it is employed, and anticipate what you must do to avoid it.

The hedgehog works so well because:

1) the destroyer can shoot it while it still has you in contact, since it is an "ahead thrown weapon." so the destroyer will still have you in sonar contact when it fires the hedgehog. And:

2) it is not set to explode at some depth, but only explodes on contact. So if it explodes, it has hit you and that means you're probably dead.

The hedgehog throws a ring of bombs which actually look really cool. I recall one narrow escape in which this chandolier of death floated just of my stern.

So you might use the external cam for a while - yeah, it's lower realism, but you need to watch how it works.

A ship that shoots it at you will be charging at you, so you might think about getting the mod that shows escort contacts in red on your sonar. When you see one charging at you, anticipate the hedgehog, and instead of waiting for the depth charge warning, drop a bold and floor it out of the area. I don't know exactly how far ahead the hedgehog fires or if this is variable, but I would guess it is about 300 meters. I don't know if this is variable.

Unfortunately, all this information will likely only give you a better idea why you died. The hedgehog was a GREAT weapon because the escort still has you in it's sonar cone when it's fired.

The deeper you are the more time that ellapses between when the death chandolier enters the water and when you get hit, so deep is good.

One question I have is how many hedgehog attacks a typical escort has. It's like 24 mortars so they can't have more than half-a-dozen, but if anyone knows how many hedgehog salvos escorts typically have I'd like to know.

Avoiding detection is of course the best possible scenario. After 1942, I don't attack heavily escorted convoys if seas are not rough because unless the water is stormy they are going to find you and kill you.

Of course, one other way to avoid them is to play SHIV - the Japanese escorts don't have hedgehogs:P

Otto Heinzmeir · 02-24-09, 02:42 AM

When do the allies first start using hedgehogs?

Oneshot/Onekill · 02-24-09, 04:12 AM

I believe from my limited naval knowlege, it was late 1943.

Otto Heinzmeir · 02-24-09, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneshot/Onekill

I believe from my limited naval knowlege, it was late 1943.

Ah thanks.

Lzs von swe · 02-24-09, 07:59 AM

This is from uboat.net.
The first Hedgehog installation was put onboard the frigate (DE) HMS Bayntun on March 12, 1943.

Your SO calls out "wasserbomben" when DC´s are in the water, but not always. If Jim says there is no such call for Hedgehogs I take his word for it

Stay in the control room or your SO station and listen for the destroyer to accelerate and then the splashes. Order higher speed, depht cange and change course. To port or starboard? Your call, Kaleun.

02-22-09, 08:09 PM	#17
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Use a XXI boat in 1944 stay deeper and run at 17 knts can save you __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

02-23-09, 03:11 PM	#20
danurve The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 1,481 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 3	The sacrifice of tonnage for storing a few extra T-IV / T-V's is worth it. This of course presumes your aware of your surface contacts and an escort doesn't sneek up behind your screws. __________________

02-24-09, 12:32 AM	#26
danoh Seaman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 33 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well the Hedgehog was a super weapon for the Allies so it's gonna be a problem if you are facing it. Your best bet is to understand how it works, how it is employed, and anticipate what you must do to avoid it. The hedgehog works so well because: 1) the destroyer can shoot it while it still has you in contact, since it is an "ahead thrown weapon." so the destroyer will still have you in sonar contact when it fires the hedgehog. And: 2) it is not set to explode at some depth, but only explodes on contact. So if it explodes, it has hit you and that means you're probably dead. The hedgehog throws a ring of bombs which actually look really cool. I recall one narrow escape in which this chandolier of death floated just of my stern. So you might use the external cam for a while - yeah, it's lower realism, but you need to watch how it works. A ship that shoots it at you will be charging at you, so you might think about getting the mod that shows escort contacts in red on your sonar. When you see one charging at you, anticipate the hedgehog, and instead of waiting for the depth charge warning, drop a bold and floor it out of the area. I don't know exactly how far ahead the hedgehog fires or if this is variable, but I would guess it is about 300 meters. I don't know if this is variable. Unfortunately, all this information will likely only give you a better idea why you died. The hedgehog was a GREAT weapon because the escort still has you in it's sonar cone when it's fired. The deeper you are the more time that ellapses between when the death chandolier enters the water and when you get hit, so deep is good. One question I have is how many hedgehog attacks a typical escort has. It's like 24 mortars so they can't have more than half-a-dozen, but if anyone knows how many hedgehog salvos escorts typically have I'd like to know. Avoiding detection is of course the best possible scenario. After 1942, I don't attack heavily escorted convoys if seas are not rough because unless the water is stormy they are going to find you and kill you. Of course, one other way to avoid them is to play SHIV - the Japanese escorts don't have hedgehogs:P __________________ "What the world needs is less love and more common decency" - Kurt Vonnegut

02-24-09, 07:59 AM	#30
Lzs von swe Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Norrkoping, Sweden Posts: 1,074 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	This is from uboat.net. The first Hedgehog installation was put onboard the frigate (DE) HMS Bayntun on March 12, 1943. Your SO calls out "wasserbomben" when DC´s are in the water, but not always. If Jim says there is no such call for Hedgehogs I take his word for it Stay in the control room or your SO station and listen for the destroyer to accelerate and then the splashes. Order higher speed, depht cange and change course. To port or starboard? Your call, Kaleun. __________________

02-22-09, 01:22 PM	#16
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Great tips. I am all for rule number one from here on out.

02-23-09, 03:31 AM	#18
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Strap a trampoline to the front of your boat, Hedgehogs will bounce right back up and go boom on the destroyers! SOooo simple yet so effective!

02-23-09, 04:34 PM	#22
Cohaagen Frogman Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: UK Posts: 296 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	You lot are a bunch of wimps - imagine if the Squid mortar was modelled in game. How does a 40-50% kill ratio sound?

02-23-09, 05:22 PM	#23
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	The first successful use was by HMS Loch Killin on 31 July 1944, when she sank U333. The system was credited with 17 submarines in 50 attacks. That less than 1/3rd kill ratio. Good odds for the Kaleuns

02-24-09, 02:42 AM	#27
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	When do the allies first start using hedgehogs?

02-24-09, 04:12 AM	#28
Oneshot/Onekill Captain Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Drinking a cold one in Davey Jone's locker. Posts: 487 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I believe from my limited naval knowlege, it was late 1943.