Gas...no gas... gas... no gas

[asanovic7]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, without irony indeed, I do not have much more to say than what I already said.

The EU accepted for various reasons to find itself in a position of weakness (which is the translation of "dependance"). The Ukraine provokes Russia, Russia tries to discipline the Ukraine, but the Ukraine provokes more. Gazprom has debts of over 36 billion in the West and cannot afford to waste it's trade item: gas, for below 200 dollars per unit, while the market price is in the range of 400+ and needs to be payed by european nations as well. The Kreml uses gas in its constant conflict with the Ukraine, which goes beyond gas. Kreml and Gazprom are two separate actors with different interests, but they are coordinating their efforts against the Ukaine, the kreml has interests in the field of state fiances and global strategic influence, Gazprom the the business field and regarding financial profits and paying off it'S debts. The Ukraine is in a poor economic situation, and wants to blackmail europe to accept it's membership to protect against the big demon, Russia. It also does not want to adress the ICF or the WB over ledning money, for it wants to get its needed candies for free and without the usual obligations these international institutions dictatde to those depending on their credits.

And like in Georgia, I am convinced that the americans also masisvely encourage the Ukraine to provoke Russia, for two reasons: first to lecture Europe about their dependance from Russian gas and make them giving up their policies allowing that for environmental reasons, and support for the global warming faction, and second to increase American influence aginst Russia and stir the pot so that in the conflict the Ukraine gets pushed into the EU and NATO, means: into the american sphere of influence, and at the cost of Russia. The US are an invisible player in this conflict, but they are the fourth player on the field nevertheless, and they play it very tough. Tjhe bill is payed by southeuropeans, the EU, the Ukraine, and of course Russia. the political damage for the Ukraine is the biggest, followed by the hurt EU that is witnessing the ashes of it's naive energy policy. Beside financial damage to Gazprom not earning incomes, the damage for Russia is limited and can be lived with. It even may fuel the Russian intention for a Baltic sea pipeline to bypass unloved ukraine, delete Ukraine's transit fees and by that increase pressure on them, and make it more tempting for the EU to accept a state of even greater depedance from russian gas. For all these three reasons, America is strictly against this northern pipeline, and wants to keep their Ukrainean card in the game. If the US does not want anything in the European part of it'S global strategy, then it's a fall in the EU's and NATO's interest into the Ukraine, it would be a major setback for the US' own ambitions to keep Russia under pressure.

Then we agree in almost every aspect, , but you are more into the theme and your explanation is far broader than mine..

In other words..

We are gased beyond recognition in years to come..
:rotfl:

I hope this explanation by skybird can show fellow americans to how much extent United States governement(democrats, liberals, white, gay, black, Marsian etc.) do s..t around the world, and they do it followed closely by their beloved comrade.

When China steps in(or it is already), it will be even worse.

Cheers, Skybird!

[Catfish]

Hello,
i must admit i first thoght it was all made up by Putin. Now it seems the Ukrayina does indeed actively hinders the deliverance. Do they want to blackmail the EU ? I mean usually you get an answer to almost all questions in asking yourself "who profits from this".
Seems i must deliver an excuse to Mr. Putin .. :hmm: But then maybe he does not really need it

Greetings,
Catfish

[asanovic7]

After doing some thinking.. :rotfl:

US and Russians in the end have common interests in the world.. They just make a fuss about something somewhere, use their little pawns on the board and in the end split the profit.
Ping pong..

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Seems i must deliver an excuse to Mr. Putin .. :hmm:

You certainly must not, he is too tough a chess player for that. that the major share of responsibility for this row lies with the Ukraine, does not make Putinistan harmless. but as long as I can see him acting on the basis of intentions and legitimate self-interest I can forsee and understand, I rate him as an opponent you need to keep an eye on - but an opponent that is very unlikely to start something irrational and totally unreasonable. He is clever, but so far predictable. That's why I can live with a Russia dominated by Putin. It would be much worse with a Duma falling apart in trench warfare, and the government in the hands of the oligarchs and nationalists. I prefer Putin's Russia anytime to Yeltsin's Russia, it is far more stable, and predictable. Whether it is democratic in western understanding or not, is of relatively low importance, and the majority of Russians seem to be very happy with strong leaders: Stalin sees a renaissance of popularity, pushed by the Kreml, and Putin is extremely popular - especially with the young ones, but also with many of the old ones. Russia has any right there is not to be like america or europe, and who said that they must prefer to be a society as crazy and loose as the Europeans or Americans, especially the EU giving an example of cultural self-deconstruction? Ranging from Europe to the Far East, i do not believe that Russia could be run like a Western style democracy anyway. If it is stable and predictable and reliable, that kind of Russia is good enough for me. I do not tell it it must be like us. Would we like to be told by russia that we should be like them? Could you imagine wgat reactions you would get from Americans iof you tell them they have to be like you tell them to be? Let'S accept differences. Sometimes differences are mutually harmful, but here they must not necessarily be so. Europe is closer to Russia than America, so for the Europeans of us the american perspective on Russia could be seen as almost irrelevant. We should be careful that we do not pay the bill for America's policy towards Russia (thinking of the constant American provocations regarding NATO moving East, Georgia, and the Ukraine).

Originally Posted by asanovic7

Then we agree in almost every aspect

Well, agreement could happen. Do not overrate my complaint to you from some days ago. I stick to it, but we have not crossed blades so far, and I have generally a neutral stance towards you. Under such conditions I judge events and situations on a one-by-one basis. Cheers to you also.

[Skybird]

It has become known today that although Germany has the biggest gas storage capacity in Europe, differen to other nations at the beginning of this autumn/winter these storages were not only not filled up, but according to some sources even were filled to half capacity only, which means the german gas reserves seem to have depleted into critical levels much faster than expected and known to experts and the public alike.

this could change the loss in trust and prestige russia faces, which before I described as relatively small, even if it is the Ukrainean provocations to blame, because no other european country has as close relations to Russia like Germany, and we get one third of the gas we use from Russia. If Germany gets into trouble due to gas shortages, Russia would lose prestige and trust with the major partner it has in the EU. And that could have long-ranging consequences for future business relations between both nationes, and the Eu and Russia. the news of germany being far more exposed than assumed probably was very unwelcomed news in the Kreml as well (Putin is in Germany currently, receiving a medal over here which even for my taste is definitely too much concessions from Germany), where they probably thought to be more safe from early major fallpout from their major partner Germany.

Question remains what dumb idiot's decision it was to not keep the iron reserves (meant for cases of desaster and states of emergency) filled at all times. Such facilities are useless if they do not contain something.

Let's see if this will make Germany (stupidly) push the EU to agree taking the risk of buying the gas already when it leaves the Russian border (not just after it has reached european soil after transit through the Ukraine), so that if it gets stolen from the Ukraine, it is no longer Russia's business, since it already has sold it then. An according proposal to solve the crisis and get rid of the Ukraine problem has been made - by Russia. It would be the best deal for them, and the worst deal for the EU. the Ukraine already has not the most solid reputation as business partner inside the EU, and if they want that gas, it may not be of interest for them whether they steal gas that is owned by russia, or already owened by the EU. The following negotiations in that eventual case between EU and the Ukraine and the resulting costs to pay would be - European taxpayer's job again.

Thanks, but no thanks.

I want to remind us that even at the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union always fully complied with it's business obligations and always fulfilled it's contracts to deliver agreed ammounts of gas to "hostile" NATO countries in Europe.

[August]

Originally Posted by asanovic7

skybird can show fellow americans

Skybird is not an American by any means.

[FIREWALL]

@ asanovic7

I think the best part and makes the most sense of your essay was " I don't know "

And your so right and I totaly agree with you.

You don't have a CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by August

Skybird is not an American by any means.

Really? If I didn't already know he was German it would be easy to mistake him for a Democrat

[Skybird]

(...)
I am what I am
I don't want praise I don't want pity
I bang my own drum
Some think it's noise I think it's pretty
I am what I am
And what I am needs no excuses
I deal my own deck sometimes the aces sometimes the deuces ..."
(...)

[asanovic7]

Fellow?
Maah, my english..
I thought that like all people around the world are and should be friends.. Like modern gay thing..
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I didn't mean skybird is american..

Skybird, your neutral stance against me is a good thing, I have one against you, but certainly we will have to cross our swords, if not here then on handball pitch..

Firewall, it seems to me like that was the best part of my essay too..

:rotfl: :rotfl:
But, still, you didn't offer your opinion..

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I am what I am

He's Popeye the sailor man, toot, toot!

[XabbaRus]

Well gas deal concluded and it is as predicted. Tymoshenko gets a deal with Putin. Yuschenko looks like a powerless idiot and come elections later this year Tymoshenko and Yanukovich will be the ones fighting it out.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Well gas deal concluded and it is as predicted. Tymoshenko gets a deal with Putin. Yuschenko looks like a powerless idiot and come elections later this year Tymoshenko and Yanukovich will be the ones fighting it out.

See you next year again, when the higher prices come into effect - or were planned to.