President Bush Shoots America the Finger

[August]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Would be nice to have a reference for us non-US ppl to check whats this all about.

They are attempting to blame the president for signing an auto maker bailout bill created and sent to him by a Democrat controlled Congress.

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by August

They are attempting to blame the president for signing an auto maker bailout bill created and sent to him by a Democrat controlled Congress.

Yea verily...Especially the finance committee that has been Dems for quite awhile now.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

[A Very Super Market]

I have less than no respect for most American companies but keeping them in business is directly related with keeping the global economy from going to bits

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry.

Right you are. The way I see it now, the America's car industry's main customers are americans. And that's the problem. Take BMW or Audi for example, they are very popular all over the world. There's huge market for European and Japanese cars, while the US cars get only a little share of it. They should start to build less "american dream" cars and instead build cars that sell well worldwide.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Right you are. The way I see it now, the America's car industry's main customers are americans. And that's the problem. Take BMW or Audi for example, they are very popular all over the world. There's huge market for European and Japanese cars, while the US cars get only a little share of it. They should start to build less "american dream" cars and instead build cars that sell well worldwide.

Which they have failed to do since the first bailout in 1979. We are not a manufacturing nation anymore. We ARE a service economy. Giving companies that have proved themselves unable to compete in the market for the past couple of decades billions of dollars of its citizens' money AFTER it failed to move through the legislature is simply irresponsible.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Which they have failed to do since the first bailout in 1979. We are not a manufacturing nation anymore. We ARE a service economy. Giving companies that have proved themselves unable to compete in the market for the past couple of decades billions of dollars of its citizens' money AFTER it failed to move through the legislature is simply irresponsible.

PD

I think you better go look at how much this economy does manufacture - you are wrong.

However, Bush is ticking me off with this bailout. The bankruptcy courts are designed to deal with this sort of crap, not my tax dollar! The airlines went bankrupt, and guess what? They are still there too.

The auto industry just made up for its slumping sales alright. They just got the biggest sale in history.

-S

[GoldenRivet]

im personally opposed to the bailout.

We simply cannot socialize big business in America. The government shouldnt have the power to pick which companies fail and which succeed.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

im personally opposed to the bailout.

We simply cannot socialize big business in America. The government shouldnt have the power to pick which companies fail and which succeed.

huzzah to that GR

They were saying on the radio that Toyota? and GMC? had sold the same amout of cars, one made a profit, one for a loss! Guess which is which . I think people are voting with their wallets. Personally, I'd blame the UAW.

[TheSatyr]

The auto makers needed the bailout for national security reasons more than anything else I think. Who do you think builds the tanks,apcs,humvees,trucks etc. that the military uses?

I for one don't want to see our military have to go begging to Germany or Japan to get new military vehicles built. Good way for our tank and apc specs to end up on a desk in Beijing or Moscow.(They probably have them already but why make it easier for them?).

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people.

The free market dictates we do EXACTLY that when we are unable to produce things here for less money than Mexico or China can. Either socialize our auto manufacturing base completely or let it burn. A loan to keep them going is ridiculous.

PD

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

The free market dictates we do EXACTLY that when we are unable to produce things here for less money than Mexico or China can. Either socialize our auto manufacturing base completely or let it burn. A loan to keep them going is ridiculous.

PD

Supposedly, it's a loan that allows the governemnt to take shares of the companies if they don't repay them. Nice idea, President ShoeDodger, what good are shares of a worthless company after they blow the loan and don't change their ways?

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

Well, look at the bright side Neal, we can be a nation of hyperactive obese people wearing really cheap stretch band sweats...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

Neal, you commie!:p

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree. I can't think of one good reason to keep the auto industry around any longer than the market allows. We're just putting the inevitable "FAIL" on the state's charge card.
This country performs poorly in a number of industries because this is no longer an industrial country. The standard of living has exceeded that provided by that type of economy for quite some time now. Many goods are simply not able to be produced profitably in America, and that's ok.

For the next step in our economic development, we need look no further than the market. Can you imagine what a nation with our resources, labor pool, and remaining social freedoms could do if we had an economic policy like that of Hong Kong? Heck, we could make it even more business friendly. We don't need factories or smelters or what-have-you on American soil to prosper, we just need to own the companies that own those facilities.
The easiest way to do that is to embrace economic freedom and step away from state control. We already have just about everything a global industry could want, and eliminating corporate taxes and excessive legal constraints could only help. We might even get some outsourced factories back as well.

Whether you believe that scenario or not, much of our industry will end up being outsourced, anyway. Nothing can stop that. No matter what measures the state takes, it cannot beat the market. Money always finds a way. Imo, the worst thing we can do is let the government get involved in any significant fashion. All we end up doing is concentrating political and monetary power even further.

Notwithstanding all that, the Federal Government has no power to issue bailouts to begin with. Neither that power, nor anything remotely like it, is enumerated in the Constitution, so they simply don't have that power. End of story. The longer we tolerate this state of affairs, the further we drift from the ideals of choice and liberty that made this country great to begin with.
The more you fight the market, the more you lose. How many pathetic socialist economies does it take to prove?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Neal, you commie!:p

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree. I can't think of one good reason to keep the auto industry around any longer than the market allows. We're just putting the inevitable "FAIL" on the state's charge card.
This country performs poorly in a number of industries because this is no longer an industrial country. The standard of living has exceeded that provided by that type of economy for quite some time now. Many goods are simply not able to be produced profitably in America, and that's ok.

For the next step in our economic development, we need look no further than the market. Can you imagine what a nation with our resources, labor pool, and remaining social freedoms could do if we had an economic policy like that of Hong Kong? Heck, we could make it even more business friendly. We don't need factories or smelters or what-have-you on American soil to prosper, we just need to own the companies that own those facilities.
The easiest way to do that is to embrace economic freedom and step away from state control. We already have just about everything a global industry could want, and eliminating corporate taxes and excessive legal constraints could only help. We might even get some outsourced factories back as well.

Whether you believe that scenario or not, much of our industry will end up being outsourced, anyway. Nothing can stop that. No matter what measures the state takes, it cannot beat the market. Money always finds a way. Imo, the worst thing we can do is let the government get involved in any significant fashion. All we end up doing is concentrating political and monetary power even further.

Notwithstanding all that, the Federal Government has no power to issue bailouts to begin with. Neither that power, nor anything remotely like it, is enumerated in the Constitution, so they simply don't have that power. End of story. The longer we tolerate this state of affairs, the further we drift from the ideals of choice and liberty that made this country great to begin with.
The more you fight the market, the more you lose. How many pathetic socialist economies does it take to prove?

It's the Russian women you know. It corrupts you every time.
Yes, I would like 2 scoops of sourcream on my borsch.


hhhmmm borsch.