Is SHIII + GWX What Stock SHIII Should Have Been in the First Place?

[GT182]

by Mav87th
SHIII has one MAJOR advantage though - it has developers, that imo works with the comunity in ways i would wish for for Falcon. And they continue to develope the product beyond what i had dared hope for - WAY TO GO DUDES.

Mav, the developers abandoned SHIII after patch 1.4b was given to us. I think the advantage you speak of for SHIII comes from the modders. They've done all the work to bring SHIII to the level it is now, the developers had nothing to do with it. Just as they had nothing to do with GWX, all that work was by modders only.

[mookiemookie]

No, it's not what the game should be. However, it's brought the game a long way from stock SH3 which was incomplete for all the reasons that everyone has already outlined. A few more off the top of my head, and some that people have already brought up that I'd like to reiterate:

1. Lack of wolfpacks. Come on...that's what U-boats are KNOWN for! To leave out their trademark tactic is unacceptable.

2. Milk cows. Yes, they've been modded in but they still don't feel quite right since you're starting a new patrol everytime you dock at one, and you get a full loadout of torpedos and fuel instead of a partial resupply which is more realistic. There was talk from the developers at one point that they were to be added in a patch that never materialized.

3. Stock damage model. It's a joke. To attempt to simulate physics with "hit points" is garbage. The mods have come a LONG way in fixing this aspect though.

4. The miscellaneous errors in equipment availability dates, range you can travel on batteries, etc. That info can be found in five minutes on uboat.net, or in any one of the numerous books on U-boats. Mods have fixed this, thankfully.

5. Airplane behavior/physics. Wonky at best, pitiful at worst. Mods have improved this significantly, but there's still room for it to be better. I guess this is about as good as it gets though.

6. Operational areas. The Med in stock SH3 is nearly empty, and the Indian ocean/Asia *is* empty. While I can understand the focus being on the Battle of the Atlantic, SH3 is still a U-boat sim and U-boats did operate in these areas. Luckily we've got this fixed.

7. No other missions besides "Patrol Grid XXXX for 24 hrs" and not being able to request a new patrol grid from BdU. I guess we're stuck with this. SH3 Gen provides a nice workaround for that though. Wish it was a bit more integrated into the game (i.e. SH3Gen missions show up in your orders, you get renown for accomplishing them, etc), but this can't happen unfortunately.

8. Playing The Sims: Happy U-Boat Funtime! with your crew. I have better things to do than click on crewmen to see who's rested up enough to make the damn engines run. Not much to be done about this...

9. The weather model is crummy. I know the North Atlantic was a crappy place in the winter, but come on. Three straight weeks of hurricane force winds and rain doesn't seem quite realistic to me.

10. Lack of real control over your U-boat. I'd like to see being able to run on one engine, run on e-motor on the surface, run with decks awash, the ability to give an abandon ship order...heck, even let me control the dive planes. (Actually, poking through the sounds folder, it looks like they were going to include shallow and steep dives at one point as there's a crewman voice file confirming the order)

GWX is an outstanding mod, and my hat is off to Kpt. Lehmann and his band of merry men. It brings the game a long way from what it was. But since most of the defects I've laid out are hard coded into the game and without access to the source code or the release of a software development kit (I guess hope for that is pretty much dead with the developers working on SHIV)...it just cannot be what a true U-boat simulation should be.

[GSpector]

I agree with GT but I will give credit where credit is also due. The Developers did give us this product that we still enjoy so much and they made it open enough for us to improve upon it. Sadly though, they also gave us a product that needed to be improved upon so soon out the door.

Now, if they gave us a product as bad as some seem to claim, I don't think anyone here would have touched it let alone bought it when the word got out.

So I those that stood up and not only said they can make it better but actually did. Yes, I you too GT and all the Beta Testers.

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by GSpector

Now, if they gave us a product as bad as some seem to claim, I don't think anyone here would have touched it let alone bought it when the word got out.

Believe me..if it was not for the modders who have turned this from an arcade shoot-em-up submarine game to the realistic Uboat simulator it is now.I would have uninstalled the game and left it to collect dust on my shelf a very long time ago.

Now I will have this simulator on my hard drive for months to come if not longer thanks to the mods like RUB and the GW and GWX.I bought the game the day it was released and have been playing it since thanks to people like Kpt.Lehman.Marhkimov,Sergbuto,Fubar,Dowly,and the many other modders who have given their free time to make this the greatest Uboat Simulator ever.

[Corsair]

"9. The weather model is crummy. I know the North Atlantic was a crappy place in the winter, but come on. Three straight weeks of hurricane force winds and rain doesn't seem quite realistic to me."

The strongest winds we get are 15 m/s this is roughly 30 knts. Average wind speeds in hurricanes are 100 Knts, so we are far from that...
Having spent many winters in the west of France, I can tell you winter storms are often a lot more than 30 knts IRL...
As for the rain, in my hometown we predict weather in winter by looking at a cape (cape Frehel) and it goes : " if you see the cape, rain is coming. If you don't see it, it's already raining."
The problem with weather change is that when you save the game, the counter is reset. I find SH3 Weather being helpful even if not perfect.

Originally Posted by Corsair

"9. The weather model is crummy. I know the North Atlantic was a crappy place in the winter, but come on. Three straight weeks of hurricane force winds and rain doesn't seem quite realistic to me."

The strongest winds we get are 15 m/s this is roughly 30 knts. Average wind speeds in hurricanes are 100 Knts, so we are far from that...
Having spent many winters in the west of France, I can tell you winter storms are often a lot more than 30 knts IRL...
As for the rain, in my hometown we predict weather in winter by looking at a cape (cape Frehel) and it goes : " if you see the cape, rain is coming. If you don't see it, it's already raining."
The problem with weather change is that when you save the game, the counter is reset. I find SH3 Weather being helpful even if not perfect.

Heh yea - just try and come living in the western part of Denmark....that will give you wind and rain.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Is SHIII + GWX What Stock SHIII Should Have Been in the First Place?

GWX is PROBABLY a great mod?, it is a GREAT mod and it is damn near close to what SH3 should have been. Somethings cannot be fixed. These issues would have been addressed by all the modders long ago. For the price you cannot beat it therefore, SH3 and GWX are what the stock SH3 should have been. Imagine if all that GWX has to offer was out there upon release of the game....imagine were we would be now if the GWX team did not have to rebuild it over the last two years. Maybe all the things you listed would be gone???? I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth...GWX is the ****!!!Just my opinion Steve.... no intention of raising the hackles!

[ReallyDedPoet]

I remember when SHIII came out I thought it was a great game ( especially given what SHII was ), yes with bugs, but a great game.

Grey Wolves, NYGM, Rub, and now GWX have made it an almost 10 in my opinion. I am looking forward to SHIV, but there is just something about U Boats, I will be playing this sim for a long time it is just that good

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Mav87th

Heh yea - just try and come living in the western part of Denmark....that will give you wind and rain.

Fine, fine! You got me. I'll concede my point on the weather model! But the rest still stand!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

GWX is PROBABLY a great mod?, it is a GREAT mod and it is damn near close to what SH3 should have been.

I'm forced to say probably, since I can't see it for myself. It's like saying a Ferrari is probably a great car. Everyone says it is, but I've never driven one so I can't say first-hand.

As to your other points, there is no doubt that each new supermod is a vast improvement on the original, and as soon as I can play again I'm sure I'll love it; especially the Canal and ship graphics, and the performance. It's not any modders fault that certain things can't be touched, but my opinion is that until they can be fixed SHIII cannot ever be what it might have and should have been.

So, as I said, I have no argument with people who say GWX is the best mod yet and does amazing things for the game. My disagreement is with those who say it makes SHIII what it should have been, because to me that is equivalent to saying it fixes everything and makes it perfect. Which it doesn't.

[Brag]

In MHO, GWX is to SHIII what SHIII was to SHII, a vast improvement. UBI, like any biz has to struggle with budgets, etc. They are not the enemy. What is amazing is what the GWX team has done, they have set the bar quite high. Will SHIV come up to GWX level?

IMO No, its not.

there are still too many features missing. wolpacks (real wolfpacks), more communications, better sub handling (batteries etc.), crew shifts/management etc. etc.

GWX cant implement that, no mod can, because of the SDK thing...
but GWX is still the best what you can get for SH3 i think...

maybe it will be possible to "transplant" a few features from SHIV in SHIII...

[elite_hunter_sh3]

<Mod Edit We do not talk about that here. PERIOD JCC>

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

<Mod Edit We do not talk about that here. PERIOD JCC>

Not to sure about that though...

The SH3 devs have said they appriciate the modders work and what they have done with their game but I highly doubt if they would allow someone to crack into the hard-code of the game.Then you are entering into a major legal issue there that is best left alone.If Ubi wanted us to be able to do some of these other things that are still missing they would have released the SDK for it.However it is obvious they want to hold the code to themselves for obvious reasons..one being they are still using it themsleves to make the new SH4.

We can only hope that after SH4 is done they will release something for us to use with SH3 in the form of some sort of SDK.Highly doubtful seeing as how Ubi is so stingy with their SDK's for their games,but you can hope.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

<Edit>