skipping 88mm stones

[Keelbuster]

I wonder if shells fired by warships skip off the surface like stones? I imagine they would, and while it would be _pure_ candy, I'd love to see something like that in SH. I can just imagine the fear as a shot that fell short bounced up and past the conning tower, unpredictable like cannon balls bouncing and spinning through lines of 19th century infantrymen.

[Brag]

Never heard of it, but I imagine it is possible. The shape of the shell is not for skipping.

During WWII Americans experimented with a skip bomb. It had had winglets for skipping.

turns it it is nearly impossible to bomb/damage a dam just by dropping a bomb onto it - so a British enginneer spent his entire war time effort designing a bomb that would be dropped several hundred yards away from the dam, skip on the surface towards the dam, sink when arriving at the dam and then denotate at just the right depth- took years of trial and error to work it all out but he finally got it right and the RAF went wild blowing up germany dams

excerpt from DVD
"In 1943, the war was not going well for the Allies. The Nazis were in firm control of the European coastline and only approachable by air. Engineer Barnes Wallis had a bold (and, many thought, bizarre) idea to turn the war around. His creation--a bouncing bomb--was an innovative blend of simple physics and precision flying with the potential to unleash a torrent of destruction on Nazi industry. MAN, MOMENT, MACHINE details what happened on May 16, 1943, when 19 bomber crews embarked on one of the riskiest missions in WWII."

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74545

[marees62]

Originally Posted by von stauber

turns it it is nearly impossible to bomb/damage a dam just by dropping a bomb onto it - so a British enginneer spent his entire war time effort designing a bomb that would be dropped several hundred yards away from the dam, skip on the surface towards the dam, sink when arriving at the dam and then denotate at just the right depth- took years of trial and error to work it all out but he finally got it right and the RAF went wild blowing up germany dams

excerpt from DVD
"In 1943, the war was not going well for the Allies. The Nazis were in firm control of the European coastline and only approachable by air. Engineer Barnes Wallis had a bold (and, many thought, bizarre) idea to turn the war around. His creation--a bouncing bomb--was an innovative blend of simple physics and precision flying with the potential to unleash a torrent of destruction on Nazi industry. MAN, MOMENT, MACHINE details what happened on May 16, 1943, when 19 bomber crews embarked on one of the riskiest missions in WWII."

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74545

I remember watching a movie a few years ago that was based on that idea. I believe the movie was called "The Dam Busters". Enjoyed it quite a bit. I think they had to modify the bomb bays in order to put a spin on the bombs before they dropped, so that they would "skip" when they hit the water. And the planes had to be going a certain speed and height for this to work properly. And I thing the bombs were round and not the "normal" bomb shape.

[Sailor Steve]

Actually the bombs were the same shape as depth charges, i.e. shaped like a drum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imageuxford_UK_Feb2005_bouncingbomb.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise

Be sure to scoll down the page to the 'Complete List of Aircraft Involved', and see how many of the bombs hit the target with no effect.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by Brag

The shape of the shell is not for skipping.

My intuition is that the reason you need a flat stone in order to get a skip is that you are throwing it relatively slow. I imagine that if you fired a round stone fast enough, it would bounce. It would also seem to depend on the angle of impact. But at certain speeds, the water just won't part for an object - like when a person falls out of a plane and hits the water, they bounce, even though they hit near perpendicular. I figure that with shells travelling so damn fast, and with angles so small, they would often bounce. Some seadog here must have fired a deck gun, and knows the answer....

[Wreford-Brown]

There were many recorded instances in WW2 of damage being caused by ricochets off the water - a number are mentioned in Robert Ballards book on Guadalcanal. Generally a ricochet round had less force than a direct hit and was unlikely to penetrate armoured belts on warships but would play havoc with superstructure and unarmoured areas.

This usually only happened at extreme range when the trajectory of the round was nearly flat (just like skipping stones) and when the water was very calm. The shape of the round is immaterial. The 'bouncing bombs' of Dambuster fame were squat cylinders (like beer barrels) and were made to bounce by creating a rearwards rotation before they were dropped. The rifling on a barrel can cause similar rotation (albeit on a different axis) as does the circular movement put onto a skipping stone as it leaves your hand.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

This usually only happened at extreme range when the trajectory of the round was nearly flat (just like skipping stones)

Interesting details - say though, at extreme range, the trajectory should be quite steep, because you have to aim high to lob a shell far - so that gravity can pull it down on your target. Flat trajectories would hold at short range where gravity doesn't have much time to act over the flight path. It seems that you get more skips with a stone when you aim relatively close.

[Wreford-Brown]

@ Keelbuster - you are, of course, right. You get maximum distance from a 45 degree angle, so you're more likely to get skips at close range. Sorry, got my physics messed up.

[bigboywooly]

I know the RN of the past used to skip canonballs to increase shot range

@ von stauber

Barnes Wallace was the genius's name

Also designed the 6ton Tallboy and 10ton Grandslam bombs
Fore runner of todays bunker busters

IIRC he also designed the Wellington bomber

[Wreford-Brown]

The Tallboys and Grand Slam were used a great deal against U-boat bunkers in occupied France. The bunkers were too massive to be more than superficially damaged, but a few U-boats were sunk by the giant waves they created washing into the U-boat pens and swamping the deck hatches. After a while, all U-boats were ordered to remain rigged for diving when in the pens with the exception of essential resupply / maintenance and the conning tower hatch.

[Brag]

Interesting comments and info, Guys!