(RELEASED) Official GWX - Knight's Cross Edition v1.0

[VikingGrandad]

Originally Posted by fastfed

just curious, this O2 thing. I can only be submerged for 6 hours before we're using oxygen ? I thought a sub could stay down much longer then just 6 hours?

Check this earlier post: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...78#post2946578

Hopefully that answers your question.

You can easily test how long the oxygen lasts if you use one of the Academy missions, submerge for a long time and see what happens.

[derstosstrupp]

Guessing it’s some sort of SH3 limitation or possible gameplay decision. I don’t recall us discussing it internally, although we may have. But correct, between air scrubbing, and oxygen supplementation, the boat could be down for days on end if grounded and activity were kept to a minimum (roughly 70 hours per Vorläufige U-Bootskunde VIIC).

[VikingGrandad]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Guessing it’s some sort of SH3 limitation or possible gameplay decision. I don’t recall us discussing it internally, although we may have. But correct, between air scrubbing, and oxygen supplementation, the boat could be down for days on end if grounded and activity were kept to a minimum (roughly 70 hours per Vorläufige U-Bootskunde VIIC).

Yeah, I do remember Kpt. Lehmann and you discussing it, not long after you joined us - so a long time ago!

At the time, I think it was decided to stick with the setting we already had in place, which, in a VIIB with full crew, gives a total renewable + non-renewable oxygen supply time of approx. 48 hours (5 hrs +& 43 hrs respectively). Those times can be adjusted in the H.Sie patch settings.

[Archive1]

Stork100;
Thanks for the reply, but the F10 Command list (read it) shows that F10 = deck gun. Which has been true for everything beginning with the original SH3. In this case it does not work. In fact...see below re: Fubar9

So how does the user know that they must go through other hoops to get the gun crewed and ready? What if the user does not want to use the Watch Officer to crew the gun? What tells the new user to do something else? We have a new program here and users need to know how to work it, folks. Any program (I have done it) must see the result from the wish or action of the user, not from the consideration of the programmer and always keep in mind established convention of control keys.

Fubar2Niner:
Let's see I think early, Aug '39 out of W'haven with a type VII - hey, I just loaded a new program as we all have done and began a new trial run.

I don't really understand your reply re: the crew on deck. I did not put them there because I wanted them there. They appeared when I selected F10 to crew the deck gun and they crudely remained there throughout a long period surfaced through some heavy seas and finally disappeared entirely upon submerging...but then there they were when I surfaced. And no way to get rid of them. Not good, folks.
-=Archive1=-

[VikingGrandad]

Originally Posted by Archive1

Stork100;
Thanks for the reply, but the F10 Command list (read it) shows that F10 = deck gun. Which has been true for everything beginning with the original SH3. In this case it does not work. In fact...see below re: Fubar9

So how does the user know that they must go through other hoops to get the gun crewed and ready? What if the user does not want to use the Watch Officer to crew the gun? What tells the new user to do something else? We have a new program here and users need to know how to work it, folks. Any program (I have done it) must see the result from the wish or action of the user, not from the consideration of the programmer and always keep in mind established convention of control keys.

F10 is the command to go to the Deck Gun camera view, whether it's manned by your crew or not. If it's already manned by your crew, you can operate the gun. If it's not manned, you simply see the view from the deck gun's camera position, and can't operate the gun.

This has not been changed in GWX, nor in GWX KC. It's the same in the stock version of the game.

From the Ubisoft SH3 Manual:




And:

[VikingGrandad]

Originally Posted by Archive1

re: the crew on deck. I did not put them there because I wanted them there. They appeared when I selected F10 to crew the deck gun and they crudely remained there throughout a long period surfaced through some heavy seas and finally disappeared entirely upon submerging...but then there they were when I surfaced. And no way to get rid of them.

What kind of keyboard do you use? Is it a regular desktop keyboard or laptop keyboard? Maybe some of your keys are misconfigured?

As mentioned in my previous reply to you, the keyboard shortcut for switching to the deck gun station (F10) does not - and cannot - put crew on the deck gun.

The inanimate 'crew on deck' feature ("Shift-D" to activate, "Ctrl-D" to de-activate) works in such a way that the instant you order a dive (either by pressing the "D" key, clicking depth setting on the depth gauge, ordering a crash dive, pressing "P" or ";" for periscope/snorkel depth) results in the crew on deck immediately disappearing the moment the order is initiated.

Originally Posted by Archive1

Not good, folks.

As the issue you encountered is a highly unusual problem, that no-one on the team has experienced during thousands of hours of testing, and no other players have reported since release - it would be wise to explore whether or not user error, or hardware/OS issues, are the cause of the problem before assuming that it's a bug.

[fastfed]

Originally Posted by VikingGrandad

Check this earlier post: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...78#post2946578

Hopefully that answers your question.

You can easily test how long the oxygen lasts if you use one of the Academy missions, submerge for a long time and see what happens.

Thank you cool information, although it seems unrealistic, unless all these books I've read are wrong I remember reading these guys could stay down there a lot longer then 5 or 6 hours without having to use o2 canisters

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by fastfed

Thank you cool information, although it seems unrealistic, unless all these books I've read are wrong I remember reading these guys could stay down there a lot longer then 5 or 6 hours without having to use o2 canisters

Excuse the long-way-round here, but bear with me and read on.

Fastfed, you must also remember that in SH3, plugging in real life values does not always translate well in-game, even in the search for 'realism' you can set a condition (that you also end up recognizing while playing) whereupon your U-boat will basically never be destroyed, or even really at risk.

One element of realism that we cannot reasonably replicate, is the experience gained when our U-boat is destroyed, and we 'respawn' later with a new career. There's only two ways I can think of that would replicate that. One would be to never play the game again after the first time you 'die' in action.... The other is just silly and stupid... and I would hope that no one is so 'dedicated' that they see it as a viable option.

Even with enhancements such as hedgehogs and 'elite' level crews, the enemy AI is rather stupid, and their means of destroying you are obtunded to say the least... an example being Huff Duff that the SH3 game designers began work on and abandoned.

To achieve a 'realistic' effect, such as the increasing danger to your U-boat as the war progresses, decisions on overall balance must be considered.

I had intended to include HSie's hardcode fixes .pdf file with our documentation, and it will be included with the next update. It describes for you how to adjust the renewable and non-renewable air / Oxygen quantity onboard your U-boat, so that you may change them to meet your thoughts and/or tastes, and I encourage you to do exactly that.

In the face of SH3 limitations, it makes many things such as these two modifications argumentative. SH3 does not possess the full gamut of threats to player U-boats. Also, since we never actually die in game, we cannot unlearn the lessons we are given when our U-boat is destroyed... creating an unrealistic imbalance that erodes the overall 'big picture risk.'

I realize that this is a lot to read and maybe some skip it. That's fine. People normally don't read manuals or even listen half the time.
However, the rationale is now clear for the settings that HSie planted and that we have chosen to keep for our release. You also have the freedom to change them via HSie's instructions and the slider bars on his control panel which is included in GWX-KC. We may indeed change them too. If we decide to change, we will decide internally. However, for yourself, I also want you to consider how you would approach the big picture of maintaining 'lethality' and not lose the overall essence of going out on patrol with a little increasing feeling of dread and respect for the enemy. Too much oxygen on the boat will create a situation where you never really have to fear the enemy at all.

[Raf1394]

When you go in details. Everything has flaws. Even other games or mods.
There is not one game without a single flaw.


I always look at a mod and a game in general. And GWX is a good mod
been playing 2 months now. And i still like it. Sometimes its too hard haha. But i like it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Raf1394

When you go in details. Everything has flaws. Even other games or mods.
There is not one game without a single flaw.


I always look at a mod and a game in general. And GWX is a good mod
been playing 2 months now. And i still like it. Sometimes its too hard haha. But i like it.

Are you sure, shipmate? What's your secret for traveling through time? It's only been out for a tiny bit over a month.

[Raf1394]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Are you sure, shipmate? What's your secret for traveling through time? It's only been out for a tiny bit over a month.

I think i'm playing the version before the latest update sorry haha.

Anyways, GWX in general is pretty nice. even the older versions.