Most accurate Targeting method?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Drakken

Are you playing with map contacts update on? I'd advise that you practice with these on first to learn the basics. There's no shame in baby steps. Another advantage of playing with map updates on is that you can actually see the target and the torpedo's projected course on the attack map.

When you feel comfortable and reliably sink targets with updates on, then you can then turn those off.

1. Speed: The cornerstone of any firing solution. Unless you're spotted or she starts zig-zagging, it is the only data point that remains constant throughout the attack. Practice by using the map to mark the target's distance travelled in 3:15 minutes, and compare with other speed acquisition methods as you practice. I used to check the speed 2-3 times with different methods, but the constant bearing method and matching the target's course and speed are the historical ones (and quite easy to learn).

2. AOB: Trace the target's course on the map with the protractor, then create an angle from his middle to your bow. That's the AOB. Eyeball it, practice with the Attack disk to match both your and her course, her bearing, and the AOB. You could also use also a visual chart to eyeball and compare with the target's angle. Keep in mind that sharper the AOB is, the easier it is to eyeball; example, it is much easier to distinguish a 10- from a 20-degree AOB than a 60- from a 75-degree AOB.

3. Range: Measure range with a ruler on the map, then practice either with the stadimeter or, if you can use it, learn to handle the RAOBF with the tick marks. It may look complicated at first, but when you get the basics it becomes very easy to use. The shortest the range you fire from, the more error-tolerant your solution will be.

The ideal firing solution is, while keeping stealth, striving to fire from the shortest range possible (but never under 300 meters), at the lowest gyroangle possible (ideally 0 gyroangle from your bow), when the target offers itself the broadest (so 75-90 degrees AOB). This is not always possible and, sometimes, you may have to plot a firing solution from guestimates or positions that are not ideal. However, the more comfortable you will become the more informed your guesses will be in a pinch.

My point is, there is no single "most accurate targeting method". In time, you will acquire different methods in your toolset that you may use to acquire the data needed to fire and hit your target, dependent on the situation.

I'll add its very easy to figure out a target's course and what yours should be via eyeballing if one would rather not bother with an attack disk.
Also, nothing wrong with breaking off an attack to try for a more favorable firing solution/position vs. wasting torpedoes/an attack.

[CassiousClay]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I'll add its very easy to figure out a target's course and what yours should be via eyeballing if one would rather not bother with an attack disk.
Also, nothing wrong with breaking off an attack to try for a more favorable firing solution/position vs. wasting torpedoes/an attack.

Yeah I've been doing quite a bit of both wasting torpedoes and losing contact with targets because I don't figure out how to get in position soon enough. Is there an option somewhere to enable 'infinite ammo' so I don't run out of torpedoes and have to go somewhere to resupply or quit and reload a save or start a new session?

I wouldn't want to play a career mode game with such a thing enabled but it would be extremely helpful for practice sessions.

[derstosstrupp]

Are you a member of the Subsim Discord server? Some night we should connect on there for a screen share and I can help you with some of these items.

[Sickents]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Are you a member of the Subsim Discord server? Some night we should connect on there for a screen share and I can help you with some of these items.

this would be good for him, I have spent a far bit of time on steam voice with him trying to teach, but maybe I don't explain things clearly enough, sometimes it's not the student's fault but the teacher's fault for not being able to explain in a term the student can understand and memorize

[CassiousClay]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Are you a member of the Subsim Discord server? Some night we should connect on there for a screen share and I can help you with some of these items.

I'd really appreciate that level of help but I avoid Discord. Steam?

Originally Posted by Sickents

this would be good for him, I have spent a far bit of time on steam voice with him trying to teach, but maybe I don't explain things clearly enough, sometimes it's not the student's fault but the teacher's fault for not being able to explain in a term the student can understand and memorize

You're instruction was awesome and very much appreciated!!!
My bad memory is at fault for why I can't consistently do it. I'm not doing one of the steps or something. I wish I would have recorded video of it so I had something like that to go back to and ID the things I'm not doing that's causing the failures. If I get a chance to do that again with someone I'd like to record it so we don't have to do it again.

We didn't cover the attack disk and RAOBF which is fine with me. Those tools seem really accurate. There's obviously other ways to do targeting without using them. Are they as quick as using the disk tools? Are they more accurate? And of course I know it comes down to what works best for me personally of all the ways there is to do it. So far what you showed me, Sickents, is a way of doing it I'm comfortable with. If only I could remember or ID what I'm screwing up...
I'm not sure I want to learn how to use the Attack disk but I'm not going to throw the idea of learning it out. I've seen people say the RAOBF and attack disk are quicker than measuring and timing and calculating but the length of videos I've seen of people using them say different.

Some videos are a few short minutes. Others are an hour+ I have a hard time sitting through and watching all of.

I was just watching this one and it doesn't make any sense to me where he's getting the numbers from.



I know this is the SH5 forum. Examples. The games are similar enough aren't they? It seems targeting and plotting a course is the same basic concept in all these sub sim games.

His screen is drastically different than my SH3 GWX3 (Gold). I don't have that chronometer at the top right on my screen it's just the ship info note thing and my buttons and dials aren't in the same place. Is it a different ship or different mods than I'm running?
I know it doesn't really matter where the dials are knowing what they do and how to use them is the important part I don't know and need to learn.

Then the my memory sucks thing. I can't remember everything explained in a 14 minute video when I'm playing to apply it.

[Sickents]

Originally Posted by CassiousClay

I'd really appreciate that level of help but I avoid Discord. Steam?



You're instruction was awesome and very much appreciated!!!
My bad memory is at fault for why I can't consistently do it. I'm not doing one of the steps or something. I wish I would have recorded video of it so I had something like that to go back to and ID the things I'm not doing that's causing the failures. If I get a chance to do that again with someone I'd like to record it so we don't have to do it again.

We didn't cover the attack disk and RAOBF which is fine with me. Those tools seem really accurate. There's obviously other ways to do targeting without using them. Are they as quick as using the disk tools? Are they more accurate? And of course I know it comes down to what works best for me personally of all the ways there is to do it. So far what you showed me, Sickents, is a way of doing it I'm comfortable with. If only I could remember or ID what I'm screwing up...
I'm not sure I want to learn how to use the Attack disk but I'm not going to throw the idea of learning it out. I've seen people say the RAOBF and attack disk are quicker than measuring and timing and calculating but the length of videos I've seen of people using them say different.

Some videos are a few short minutes. Others are an hour+ I have a hard time sitting through and watching all of.

I was just watching this one and it doesn't make any sense to me where he's getting the numbers from.



I know this is the SH5 forum. Examples. The games are similar enough aren't they? It seems targeting and plotting a course is the same basic concept in all these sub sim games.

His screen is drastically different than my SH3 GWX3 (Gold). I don't have that chronometer at the top right on my screen it's just the ship info note thing and my buttons and dials aren't in the same place. Is it a different ship or different mods than I'm running?
I know it doesn't really matter where the dials are knowing what they do and how to use them is the important part I don't know and need to learn.

Then the my memory sucks thing. I can't remember everything explained in a 14 minute video when I'm playing to apply it.

the way I showed you is the simplest beginner way I could think of, the attack disk is the next step, the way I showed you of doing it on the map with map contacts on if done correctly is 100% accurate, the 3 mins 15 secs variant of speed calculation is more accurate then the 1-minute speed calculation, I should have showed you the 3 min 15-sec variant as opposed to the quick 1 min calculations, that is my fault, with the 1 min method you need to round up and round down the measurement to the chart as the ruler only does intervals of 50 meters, so the ruler will show 200 when it might actually be 248, kinda need to move the ruler on that final mark back and forth and see if it's closer to 200 or to 250 meters , being 1 knot out at 1000 meters is ok though providing they are not doing above 12 knots you should still hit the target if your firing with-in 1000 meters.

the 3 min 15 method is simple though, set a mark on the bow of the ship, time it for 3 mins 15 sec.s, make another mark on the bow of ship, now say the ruler reads 400 meters, the ship is doing 4 knots, 700 meters is 7 knots, 1400 meters is 14 knots

the above video is very very good and informative , if you are ready to take the next step, follow his instructions

[CassiousClay]

Maybe I'm getting old LOL. The stuff we need to learn and know just to play this game can be overwhelming. But that's exactly why I wanted a sub sim.

Here is what I do remember to do from what you taught me, Sicknets:

1. Periscope and lock. Press X (L in SH3) to follow target with scope.
2. Mark, time, and measure to get the speed.
3. Get angle of bow with protractor starting from my ship, draw to target ship, draw angle line referencing it's bow point.

and that's where I think I'm missing a step. In fact now that I typed it out I think what I'm not doing is setting the AOB in whatever dial it needs to be set in.

The next step I do is watch the gyro angle dials waiting for them to zero to fire.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by CassiousClay

Yeah I've been doing quite a bit of both wasting torpedoes and losing contact with targets because I don't figure out how to get in position soon enough. Is there an option somewhere to enable 'infinite ammo' so I don't run out of torpedoes and have to go somewhere to resupply or quit and reload a save or start a new session?

I wouldn't want to play a career mode game with such a thing enabled but it would be extremely helpful for practice sessions.

I'd imagine there is a mod already made or one you can do to get unlimited torpedoes but unfortunately I don't know where either would be. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Sounds like you might want to follow the KISS principle, which isn't a bad thing and is historically correct anyway.
One good start on that is to get 90 degree angle attacks down pat and then if desired, try something else.

To do so simply parallel track a convoy maintaining a fairly constant distance from the nearest ship and the same speed. Doing so and you already have a targets course and speed without touching a thing.
Draw a line representing the target course, get ahead of the target continuing on that parallel course and when far enough ahead turn into the 90 degree intercept course heading. I.e., say the target is traveling 025 degrees. Simply add (if you're on port side of target) or subtract (if you're on starboard side of target) 90 from that 025 heading and that is the heading you need to go.
Targets can easily be hit from 3500 meters or less. But don't let your boat/scope be seen.
There's plenty of do this/don't do that I could add but that would only confuse things and make something simple, unnecessarily complex, plus I bet you'd learn fast enough by practicing yourself. Maybe just work on even just getting into position to shoot before worrying about actual targeting. This method has a very easy and accurate targeting method too.

It's the only way I attack. Get inside a convoy and you can easily fire from both bow and stern with it.

What is your mod setup ? Knowing that may lead to get missions to practice with.

[CassiousClay]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I'd imagine there is a mod already made or one you can do to get unlimited torpedoes but unfortunately I don't know where either would be. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Sounds like you might want to follow the KISS principle, which isn't a bad thing and is historically correct anyway.
One good start on that is to get 90 degree angle attacks down pat and then if desired, try something else.

To do so simply parallel track a convoy maintaining a fairly constant distance from the nearest ship and the same speed. Doing so and you already have a targets course and speed without touching a thing.
Draw a line representing the target course, get ahead of the target continuing on that parallel course and when far enough ahead turn into the 90 degree intercept course heading. I.e., say the target is traveling 025 degrees. Simply add (if you're on port side of target) or subtract (if you're on starboard side of target) 90 from that 025 heading and that is the heading you need to go.
Targets can easily be hit from 3500 meters or less. But don't let your boat/scope be seen.
There's plenty of do this/don't do that I could add but that would only confuse things and make something simple, unnecessarily complex, plus I bet you'd learn fast enough by practicing yourself. Maybe just work on even just getting into position to shoot before worrying about actual targeting. This method has a very easy and accurate targeting method too.

It's the only way I attack. Get inside a convoy and you can easily fire from both bow and stern with it.

What is your mod setup ? Knowing that may lead to get missions to practice with.

Yeah I'm doing the "KISS" method for several reasons.
1. It's historically accurate to do it that way.
2. It's easiest.
3. Fastest, at least for now until I do figure out how to learn the other methods.

I'm only running TWoS in SH5 but I'm primarily playing and like SH3 better (less bugs = less frustration especially when learning). I have GWX3 Gold version on SH3. I don't have any mods activated for SH3.
I did install the TDC Practice mission for SH3 but haven't played again since i threw it in. I'm not even sure I installed it right, I put the .mis file in the singlemissions folder. I tried the JSGME method the download description says to do but I couldn't find it anywhere in the game doing that.